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| Royalties, subscriptions and SR-EL update |
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 11:30:34 AM by Lisafx |
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| Originally posted by Madelaide: |
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Quoted Message: t
The reduction in comissions is however a big deception - current 50% to Level 1 30% is actually a 60% decrease! The decrease in exclusive images from non-exclusive members is also very significant, and I'm not sure it remains so attractive to keep them exclusive.
I hope there is dialogue for improvements. |
Yes, this is a huge disappointment. I can appreciate the need to stay competitive, but royalties dropping from 50-30% on the majority of files is going to be a major hit to the income of most high-volume producers. I can't see how I could possibly make this up in volume.
I have quite a few exclusive files on DT. Way more than on any other site. The 60% royalties those images have gotten up to now is the main reason I participate in the monthly contests. I never win the contests (nor do I expect to) so without the 60% commission I can't see any incentive to enter them anymore.
On the positive side, I do appreciate the higher sub prices so thanks for that.
On the whole though, the dark cloud seems to be overshadowing the silver lining in this deal.
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Canon 5D, 40D, Various lenses, flashes, studio lights, light...
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Uploaded files:6663 | Total Sales: 59101
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 11:31:58 AM by Noonie |
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I'm glad someone is taking care of me..this is fun!!! And I love only having to carry around one basket. Hope to bring more people to this site and that would benefit all. |
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Nikon and sometimes an older Olympus.
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Uploaded files:2248 | Total Sales: 6169
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 11:56:10 AM by Bradcalkins |
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| Originally posted by Lisafx: |
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| Quoted Message: Yes, this is a huge disappointment. I can appreciate the need to stay competitive, but royalties dropping from 50-30% on the majority of files is going to be a major hit to the income of most high-volume producers. I can't see how I could possibly make this up in volume. |
In theory, the drop isn't as bad as it seems - at least from an income perspective. The cost of credits has increased by 40% in the last few months. For a basic credit you used to get 50% of $1 = 0.50$, where you will now get 30% of $1.40 = $0.42. A drop to be sure, but not 40%. As soon as you sell a level 2 image you are basically even: 35% of $1.40 = $0.49. Above that you are doing better than before. This does seem to favor longer time DT'ers. If the threshold for Level 2 drops that makes things even better. Add to that the potential for getting two to three times the value for subscriptions...
I see that this will take a few months to sort out, since old credits are still around, but it would seem to provide more income for all but the newest members - even if you are non-exclusive. |
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Canon 7D, various prime and L series lenses
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Uploaded files:2574 | Total Sales: 14621
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Message edited at 08/12/2009, 12:11:12 PM by Inganielsen |
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I have a question concerning the SR-EL sales:
Will I still be getting 60% of $350 for an exclusive image and 50% of these $350 for a non-exclusive image? (assuming I chose to set the price to 350 of course)
EDIT: I was blind, found it myself, sorry :)
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Canon EOS 1000D, Sigma 17-70mm, Photoshop CS3
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Uploaded files:864 | Total Sales: 3764
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 12:07:01 PM by Dirkr |
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| Originally posted by Achilles: |
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Quoted Message: Don't rush to say it's a big disappointment just because you check the difference for level 1 files. We think that this system rewards older members who provide quality. Check the Excel archives and see how many level 2-5 files you had one year ago and how many you have today. Then see how many downloads you have from those files. You shouldn't count files but downloads.
Second, remember how many downloads were required several years ago for a file to become level 2: 100! Only 5 downloads are required today and there will be less in the future (oops). Remember my previous statements where I was explaining how subscriptions play an active role within our pricing system. Your patience paid off and these count as extra downloads now, while helping them achieve the next level.
Of course that your feedback will be taken into account. We think the system is fair already and we correlate it with our future credits 2009 launch (oops again). Dreamstime is still growing and there are many more things to come. Don't expect to earn a fortune over night and don't think you will lose either. As you can see above, we continue to provide the highest royalties and we'll continue to take care of our contributors. |
Obviously the two "oops" sound interesting.
Sounds like this will lead to overall prices for our images rising - a good thing, for both DT and contributors.
So with these changes in the future, there should be more money in everyone's pocket.
Now what I fail to understand: Why is it necessary to reduce the share that contributors receive?
Even if the outcome is that contributors will make similar totals than today, DT will make significantly more. The reduction of contributors' share is not needed to finance these changes, as they bring in more money for DT even with the existing revenue distribution.
That is the reason why I consider such a move as being not fair.
I applaude every move that brings higher prices for our images, but why not keep the existing fair 50/50 distribution of revenues? |
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Uploaded files:904 | Total Sales: 553
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 12:16:31 PM by Linqong |
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I am a photographer working exclusively with Dreamstime.com.
I am very proud:) |
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Canon 5D MarkII.Canon 30d and professional serial lenses.
S...
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Uploaded files:4917 | Total Sales: 6861
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 12:39:55 PM by Freezingpictures |
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| Originally posted by Achilles: |
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Quoted Message: Don't rush to say it's a big disappointment just because you check the difference for level 1 files. We think that this system rewards older members who provide quality. Check the Excel archives and see how many level 2-5 files you had one year ago and how many you have today. Then see how many downloads you have from those files. You shouldn't count files but downloads.
Second, remember how many downloads were required several years ago for a file to become level 2: 100! Only 5 downloads are required today and there will be less in the future (oops). Remember my previous statements where I was explaining how subscriptions play an active role within our pricing system. Your patience paid off and these count as extra downloads now, while helping them achieve the next level.
Of course that your feedback will be taken into account. We think the system is fair already and we correlate it with our future credits 2009 launch (oops again). Dreamstime is still growing and there are many more things to come. Don't expect to earn a fortune over night and don't think you will lose either. As you can see above, we continue to provide the highest royalties and we'll continue to take care of our contributors. |
Hmm, I am an older member with a reasonable good rate of dls/file I would say, but according to the new royalty rate and the past 50 sales I would get ~34,3%. Maybe I do not provide quality? Looking forward to the new levels :-)
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Images were made with the Olympus 720 UZ, Canon EOS 60D, Can...
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Uploaded files:449 | Total Sales: 7565
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Message edited at 08/12/2009, 12:52:19 PM by Sharpshot |
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| Originally posted by Bradcalkins: |
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Quoted Message:
In theory, the drop isn't as bad as it seems - at least from an income perspective. The cost of credits has increased by 40% in the last few months. For a basic credit you used to get 50% of $1 = 0.50$, where you will now get 30% of $1.40 = $0.42. A drop to be sure, but not 40%. As soon as you sell a level 2 image you are basically even: 35% of $1.40 = $0.49. Above that you are doing better than before. This does seem to favor longer time DT'ers. If the threshold for Level 2 drops that makes things even better. Add to that the potential for getting two to three times the value for subscriptions...
I see that this will take a few months to sort out, since old credits are still around, but it would seem to provide more income for all but the newest members - even if you are non-exclusive.
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When prices go up, sales fall and with the lower commissions, it might not be as good as you think. I just don't like getting 30% for any sales, that seems far too low. When will this end? Are we going to see even lower commissions in future years? |
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Canon 550D
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Uploaded files:1112 | Total Sales: 5657
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 13:02:56 PM by Thefinalmiracle |
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I am non-exclusive, I will be affected somewhat but I am happy about the move. Considering the overall market status and attracting new buyers from the RM industry as well as retaining existing buyers, this is gonna work good for all. |
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Canon Rebel XSI / 450D with Canon 18-55mm IS Lens & Tamron 7...
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Uploaded files:4459 | Total Sales: 11124
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 13:12:07 PM by Tonygers |
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| Originally posted by Thefinalmiracle: |
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| Quoted Message: I am non-exclusive, I will be affected somewhat but I am happy about the move. Considering the overall market status and attracting new buyers from the RM industry as well as retaining existing buyers, this is gonna work good for all. |
I agree. I'm also a non-exclusive submitter but feel positive about these changes. |
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Nikon D90 12.3 megapixel
Nikon D60 10 megapixel
Nikkor 50m...
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Uploaded files:1406 | Total Sales: 1948
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 13:34:41 PM by Mocker |
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When does it go into effect? |
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Mac OS X 10.3.9;
Wacom Intuos3 Pen Tablet;
NEC LCD2690-SV ...
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Uploaded files:2289 | Total Sales: 7768
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 13:45:03 PM by Irisangel |
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Serban In your last post re: price increase you stated. "The specifics for this update are not ready yet. While we don't expect contributors to be happy with a decrease in royalties, we hope that a bigger revenue will make this worthwhile."
I will have to see the results in black and white at the end of the month, But you were right, On face value, I don't like it. Exclusives earned 10% more and that was understandable, now they will make 30% more on new images??? I Don't like this at all, I signed an agreement when I joined, how can you just throw that agreement out the window. This is my first reaction to this announcement, like I said, I will see what the bottom line is at the end of the month. I have a lot of images out there and becoming exclusive here is not an option for me, But I feel like we are at the mercy of sites representing our work, They raise the prices, lower the royalties and do anything else they please, Contract agreements should now read, Just upload all your best stuff and we will pay you whatever we like.
When I signed up, it was under this agreement.
This is from the site usage agreement;
“Non-exclusive contributors:
A non-exclusive contributor is an artist who uploads images which are also available for sale with other stock agencies. These contributors may upload their images to Dreamstime.com while selling the same images through other channels. Non-exclusive contributors shall receive fifty (50%) percent of the sale price received by Dreamstime.com for the images they have contributed to the site which are subsequently sold by Dreamstime.com.
I could not find any reference to DT reserving the right to lower the royalties paid for images sold by Dreamstime.com.
Sorry for the negative feedback, but this is my first reaction to this news.
write your text here |
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Canon Eos 400D, Samsung S850( always with me) trip...
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Uploaded files:2502 | Total Sales: 13468
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 14:07:21 PM by Lisafx |
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| Originally posted by Bradcalkins: |
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Quoted Message:
In theory, the drop isn't as bad as it seems - at least from an income perspective. The cost of credits has increased by 40% in the last few months. For a basic credit you used to get 50% of $1 = 0.50$, where you will now get 30% of $1.40 = $0.42. A drop to be sure, but not 40%. As soon as you sell a level 2 image you are basically even: 35% of $1.40 = $0.49. Above that you are doing better than before. This does seem to favor longer time DT'ers. If the threshold for Level 2 drops that makes things even better. Add to that the potential for getting two to three times the value for subscriptions...
I see that this will take a few months to sort out, since old credits are still around, but it would seem to provide more income for all but the newest members - even if you are non-exclusive. |
Thanks for going in depth and working out the math Brad. Maybe it isn't as bad as I had feared.
In general the trend of cutting commissions to content providers is not good, but I will hold off to see how it plays out in actual monthly income before drawing a definite conclusion.
Hopefully the more optimistic forecasts will prove to be the reality. |
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Canon 5D, 40D, Various lenses, flashes, studio lights, light...
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Uploaded files:6663 | Total Sales: 59101
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 15:34:52 PM by Stuartkey |
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Non-exclusive contributers need to remember that in the last Price Update, Serban stated that the commission rates were going to be reviewed, and that the net result of the two changes would be beneficial.
Clearly no-one likes commission reductions, but one big reason I chose to upload my portfolio here was the 50% rate. Then, when I decided to go exclusive somewhere, DT was the obvious choice helped by the 60%.
That 10% difference was never really generous enough, given the potential 'loss' of not selling on the numerous other sites. Even though most of them DO NOT pay anything like as generously as DT.
So on the face of it, it seems like a large reduction for non-ex but combined with the recent price INCREASE and the future updates Serban hinted at, I don't think there's anything for anyone to get worked up about.
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Uploaded files:565 | Total Sales: 6975
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 15:51:38 PM by Irisangel |
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Like I said, I will see how this works out at the end of the month. But at face value, I think it is very unfair because the 50% commission is the reason a lot of us signed up here. The last price increase should have brought quite an increase to DT's revenue, (I know it boosted mine) But cutting into our profits just sounds wrong to me. |
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Canon Eos 400D, Samsung S850( always with me) trip...
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Uploaded files:2502 | Total Sales: 13468
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Message edited at 08/12/2009, 15:54:56 PM by Madelaide |
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| Originally posted by Stuartkey: |
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| Quoted Message: Non-exclusive contributers need to remember that in the last Price Update, Serban stated that the commission rates were going to be reviewed, and that the net result of the two changes would be beneficial. |
True, but no further information was given - there was not yet a reason to complain.
The reduction in commissions also happened in another site, but the reduction was not so drastic. Prices would have to increase 50-60% to compensate the new comissions, and I'm sure this will not happen.
According to Bradcalkins' calculations, we're almost back to earnings of months ago, so "we're not losing". Does it make sense? Then all the increase in profits goes DT's side only? There is some problem with the maths. My earnings have been smaller, too many subs, and I don't see the new proposal as benefitial to non-exclusives.
A suggestion (if there is room for them) for exclusive images by non-exclusive contributors: start at 40% and finish with the same 60% of non-exclusives. |
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Mainly Canon A620 for microstock
Traditional photograph...
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Uploaded files:215 | Total Sales: 1472
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 16:23:41 PM by Warrenpricephotography |
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DIVIDE AND CONQUER!
To me, it is obvious that all the agencies are pushing for Exclusive Contributors. Think about that. If we all choose to go exclusive at one or the other of the agencies, how does that affect buyers? Will that split buyers into "exclusive groups," each buying from a different agency? Or, will the search each and every agency until they find a particular image? How many buyers go first to one specific photographer? What if they don't like your agency? I wonder if there is already a software developer working on a multi-site search engine?
And, once you are exclusive ... what will you do with that portfolio when rates are dropped for exclusives?
Sorry, I don't see this as a positive.
There goes my chance at "Featured Contributor." :-)
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Nikon, Canon and Panasonic cameras; Nikon, Canon and Tokina ...
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Uploaded files:876 | Total Sales: 691
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Message edited at 08/12/2009, 17:12:10 PM by Chucky |
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good news!
congratulatory message from beijing |
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D200,D70S,SB800,nikon lenses,Sekonic L-308,two GuangBao LB40...
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Uploaded files:1439 | Total Sales: 590
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Message edited at 08/12/2009, 17:20:12 PM by Stuartkey |
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| Originally posted by Madelaide: |
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| Quoted Message: A suggestion (if there is room for them) for exclusive images by non-exclusive contributors: start at 40% and finish with the same 60% of non-exclusives. |
But where is the incentive for exclusives then? The loyalty of exclusivity should be rewarded with an across-the-board bonus above any rate a non-exclusive can earn... whether it's an exclusive image or not. In my opinion.
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Uploaded files:565 | Total Sales: 6975
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Message posted at 08/12/2009, 17:21:26 PM by Stuartkey |
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| Originally posted by Warrenpricephotography: |
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| Quoted Message: And, once you are exclusive ... what will you do with that portfolio when rates are dropped for exclusives? |
Stop uploading and disable images as quickly as possible in accordance with the sites terms & conditions. :)
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Uploaded files:565 | Total Sales: 6975
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