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| Royalties, subscriptions and SR-EL update |
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Message posted at 08/14/2009, 13:27:10 PM by Ampyang |
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Achilles,
It came to my surprise that you're sound irritated with my post. If I'm hurting yours or anybody's feelings, I apologize then.
What I have mentioned in my earlier post are all FACTS, whether going to be accepted or not, it is truly the reality of any kind of business. And I don't recall putting any complain in my post. On the contrary, it could "calm-down" the non-exclusive reaction to the recent changes.
If we, the non-exclusive going to see a decrease in our revenue due to recent business strategy, should anyone here expecting us to be happy about that? Nonetheless, I was not complaining. I just brought out the reality so everyone can accept the changes and move on.
When I was joining any micro site as a non-exclusive, I was signing to "participate" not to support. Knowing and fully understand the consequences. After all there is (were) options whether going to be exclusive or not. If a micro site require me to be exclusive, I surely will not attempt to join in.
If someone then choose to be exclusive here or elsewhere, it's really is a personal "like and dislike" and a matter of available time that somebody can spare to manage their port.
As for me (like many non-exclusive), I love to keep it just a "pure" business.
I believe you need the non-exclusive as well.
As for the "fairness or unfairness" of the royalties, again, I never mentioned it in my post. As a non-exclusive I do aware that this kind of changes are part of the deal on each micro site I'm participating.
BTW, I don't think any non-exclusive here complaining about the "fair - unfair" things. To my understanding, what they seek are an explanation as to why their royalties need to be cut and so going to face a revenue decreased.
"Fairness or unfairness" of royalties, is a separate issue in a grand microstock-industry scale. Aiming to ALL micro site (disregard exclusive or non). Hence, if now DT cutting royalties to match the competitor, doesn't this make DT just more like elsewhere?
Best Regards, |
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Canon EOS 350D, 7D, 17-40 f4L, 70-200 f4L, 24-70 F2.8L
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Uploaded files:749 | Total Sales: 1398
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Message posted at 08/14/2009, 13:37:16 PM by Micspix |
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| Originally posted by Achilles: |
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Quoted Message: The main thing that a contributor supports an agency with is by submitting images.
An agency works with content and budgets for its marketing plans. There are lots of other things that participate, but content is a strategic advantage and affects pricing. If it's not exclusive with your favorite agency, then you are not fully supporting it. A competitor with a higher price and lower royalties will be able to attract more customers thanks to your support. |
Then why are exlusive images taking such a hit with the percentage decrease? Should not the exclusive image be given more consideration and a high percentage such as in the current system? Why was the exclusive image percentage cut so drastically? This is content that is exclusive to your agency even though the photographer, themselves is not exclusive.
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Uploaded files:407 | Total Sales: 2684
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Message posted at 08/14/2009, 13:58:55 PM by Achilles - member is an admin |
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No, I wasn't irritated at all, what made you say that? I just explained why I don't think your strategy really works.
As for the exclusive images, in many cases they are not really unique content, but part of a shooting that is spread in several places. It's not the same level of commitment that an exclusive photographer makes. There were also many cases of fraud surrounding them. Royalties levels that are too tempting may bring more fraud attempts. They still enjoy 10% over the regular royalties. Whether that can be increased or not, remains to be seen.
Jacus, I don't really follow your last question, but we're on the same note. I'm not expecting anyone to be happy about a royalty cut, as long as it doesn't translate into bigger revenue. That's what we always insisted that we want to bring, bigger checks for the contributors at the end of the month. |
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Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
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Uploaded files:2669 | Total Sales: 21462
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Message posted at 08/14/2009, 15:39:50 PM by Warrenpricephotography |
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Achilles,
that analogy could be applied across the board to any contributor whether exclusive or non-exclusive. I have not attempted to deceive anyone. ALL my images that require a model release are exclusive to Dreamstime. At least, they were. I just requested to have all mine removed from the exclusive category. Hopefully, that will relieve your anxieity over fradulent exclusive submissions.
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Nikon, Canon and Panasonic cameras; Nikon, Canon and Tokina ...
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Uploaded files:876 | Total Sales: 690
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Message posted at 08/15/2009, 06:41:22 AM by Saniphoto |
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[quote]
As for the exclusive images, in many cases they are not really unique content, but part of a shooting that is spread in several places. It's not the same level of commitment that an exclusive photographer makes. There were also many cases of fraud surrounding them. Royalties levels that are too tempting may bring more fraud attempts. They still enjoy 10% over the regular royalties. Whether that can be increased or not, remains to be seen.
I am sorry for this development, as I wanted to go with exclusive only images for my technology and butterflies conceptual photos, but I understand your point of view and why you had to make this choice. I agree with your analysis of the reason behind this choice. Sorry that I will have to remove my exclusivity, of course, from images already posted as such. Would say that mine was really a case of 'bad timing' for such a decision!
regards |
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Photographic gear: Nikon D300 and D700 with Nikon lenses, El...
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Uploaded files:2059 | Total Sales: 22709
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Message posted at 08/15/2009, 06:57:18 AM by Micspix |
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[quote]As for the exclusive images, in many cases they are not really unique content, but part of a shooting that is spread in several places. It's not the same level of commitment that an exclusive photographer makes. There were also many cases of fraud surrounding them. Royalties levels that are too tempting may bring more fraud attempts. They still enjoy 10% over the regular royalties. Whether that can be increased or not, remains to be seen.
Fraud is an entirely different problem and should be addressed by the DT Staff. Fraud is actually a crime, and the people perpetrating the Fraud should be punished, not the honest contributors that abide by the rules.
The new rates are not 10% over the regular royalties. for level one images they are only 3% over the regular royalties, Level 2 - 3.5%, level 3 - 4%, level 4- 4.5% and Level 5 - 5%
I hope you consider raising these percentages. For exclusive images to be cut by 27% from the current 60% to 33% is a drastic cut.
I can understand why you would want to tier your payments - the top percentages going to exclusive photographers. However, the amount of the difference being given to exclusive photograhers and exclusive images is very very great. A happy medium to acknowledge that the images are exclusive content to your agency and to still give a good reason for the contributors to keep their images exclusive would be beneficial for all.
DT has been a wonderful site, and I've enjoyed it tremendously. I Think that your fairness in hearing and responding to concerns is noteworthy and your consideration of the many different opinions expressed on such important matters as commisions is admirable. I look forward to a continuing successful and enjoyable relationship. |
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Uploaded files:407 | Total Sales: 2684
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Message posted at 08/15/2009, 07:44:56 AM by Dmccale |
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| Originally posted by Micspix: |
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Quoted Message: [quote]As for the exclusive images, in many cases they are not really unique content, but part of a shooting that is spread in several places. It's not the same level of commitment that an exclusive photographer makes. There were also many cases of fraud surrounding them. Royalties levels that are too tempting may bring more fraud attempts. They still enjoy 10% over the regular royalties. Whether that can be increased or not, remains to be seen.
Fraud is an entirely different problem and should be addressed by the DT Staff. Fraud is actually a crime, and the people perpetrating the Fraud should be punished, not the honest contributors that abide by the rules.
The new rates are not 10% over the regular royalties. for level one images they are only 3% over the regular royalties, Level 2 - 3.5%, level 3 - 4%, level 4- 4.5% and Level 5 - 5%
I hope you consider raising these percentages. For exclusive images to be cut by 27% from the current 60% to 33% is a drastic cut.
I can understand why you would want to tier your payments - the top percentages going to exclusive photographers. However, the amount of the difference being given to exclusive photograhers and exclusive images is very very great. A happy medium to acknowledge that the images are exclusive content to your agency and to still give a good reason for the contributors to keep their images exclusive would be beneficial for all.
DT has been a wonderful site, and I've enjoyed it tremendously. I Think that your fairness in hearing and responding to concerns is noteworthy and your consideration of the many different opinions expressed on such important matters as commisions is admirable. I look forward to a continuing successful and enjoyable relationship. |
I agree.Not sure about all of this.I have 99 percent exclusive images and do not like this new change.JMO
Debbie |
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Canon 60D ,Canon 50D , 28-135mm IS,canon 85mm 1.8,
Canon 40...
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Uploaded files:570 | Total Sales: 1244
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Message posted at 08/15/2009, 08:24:42 AM by Bradcalkins |
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| Originally posted by Micspix: |
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| Quoted Message: The new rates are not 10% over the regular royalties. for level one images they are only 3% over the regular royalties, Level 2 - 3.5%, level 3 - 4%, level 4- 4.5% and Level 5 - 5% |
10% of 30% is 3%, etc. - so the royalties are 10% above the non-exclusive rates - but I know what you mean... In percentage terms they used to be 20% above for any level, which has been reduced to 10%. |
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Canon 7D, various prime and L series lenses
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Uploaded files:2578 | Total Sales: 14607
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Message edited at 08/15/2009, 13:55:26 PM by Red |
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Fraud is an entirely different problem and should be addressed by the DT Staff.
How can DT check for fraud in regards to exclusive images? Is it being suggested that someone check every other stock site for similars for every exclusive image from a non-exclusive photographer? I think that would be very hard and time-consuming to do and time and resources could be better spent doing other things. In a perfect world it would be nice to trust that every exclusive image is one of a kind but they are often just one from a very similar series of images that can be found elsewhere, so are not that unique. Sad to say, but this is often done. |
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Uploaded files:101 | Total Sales: 1165
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Message posted at 08/15/2009, 12:43:18 PM by Poco_bw |
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| Originally posted by Achilles: |
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Quoted Message:
why do you feel lower royalties are fair elsewhere? Why do you complain here but support them (quietly or not) elsewhere? |
I starded on Microstock with DT beeing my first agency what I upload.
Always I get a soft sput for them, maybe because I am a romanian, maybe because I saw Serban like a fair person.
Reffering to the question what Serban put the answer is simple for me.
I do try to support myself and my child one way or the other, but if the another agency with lower 20%,despite the fact that I have half the number of images on DT change the digits and now the monthly revenue is $*000.00 and on DT is 3-4 times lower, I have no reason to say anything whatsoever.
If you guys here decrease the percentage awarded to the contributor, I do have reason to be worried, I am sure you guys have a strategy somehow, but if the strategy fails, I will still lose, regardles who is winning or loosing.
Anyway the decesion is already made , and all of us here just bark at the wrong
tree. I better shut up go and do some work because this"in the hope everything will be better" never worked for me, because I guess God have his Ipod at the maximum level,and if I say something anyway he can not hear me :-)
Ta,ta |
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Canon Mark III 1Ds , Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 40D, Canon 30D,...
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Uploaded files:2758 | Total Sales: 12626
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Message posted at 08/15/2009, 14:45:44 PM by Micspix |
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| Originally posted by Bradcalkins: |
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| Quoted Message: [quote]The new rates are not 10% over the regular royalties. for level one images they are only 3% over the regular royalties, Level 2 - 3.5%, level 3 - 4%, level 4- 4.5% and Level 5 - 5% |
10% of 30% is 3%, etc. - so the royalties are 10% above the non-exclusive rates - but I know what you mean... In percentage terms they used to be 20% above for any level, which has been reduced to 10%.[/quote]
One thing's for certain - I'm sure not a math whiz! Thanks, Brad, for pointing out my faulty math! But, at any rate, you understand what I mean. The difference in the percentages being paid now, and that will be paid under the new system for exclusive images, is quite drastic, even if my math is wrong!
Michele |
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Uploaded files:407 | Total Sales: 2684
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Message posted at 08/15/2009, 15:29:00 PM by Madelaide |
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| Originally posted by Achilles: |
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| Quoted Message: As for the exclusive images, in many cases they are not really unique content, but part of a shooting that is spread in several places. It's not the same level of commitment that an exclusive photographer makes. There were also many cases of fraud surrounding them. Royalties levels that are too tempting may bring more fraud attempts. They still enjoy 10% over the regular royalties. Whether that can be increased or not, remains to be seen. |
It's a pity that the people who work under the rules pay for those who do not. I have only two exclusive images, both unique in the sense that they don't have similars. One of them had been in other sites before I made it exclusive, but I respected the rules and deleted it from everywhere else. And because other people did not respect the obvious rules, they have lower commissions now. One is a level 4, so not too bad, but the other is a level 1 and the comission doesn't compensate for exclusivity anymore. |
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Mainly Canon A620 for microstock
Traditional photograph...
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Uploaded files:215 | Total Sales: 1472
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Message posted at 08/15/2009, 21:14:37 PM by Irisangel |
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"Subscriptions of 3-5th level files will now count as multiple downloads"
Am I understanding this right? Sub sales will still bring the same amount of money, but they will add numbers to your download totals helping to bring them to a higher level??
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Canon Eos 400D, Samsung S850( always with me) trip...
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Uploaded files:2502 | Total Sales: 13466
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Message posted at 08/16/2009, 00:25:13 AM by Cidepix |
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| Originally posted by Irisangel: |
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Quoted Message: "Subscriptions of 3-5th level files will now count as multiple downloads"
Am I understanding this right? Sub sales will still bring the same amount of money, but they will add numbers to your download totals helping to bring them to a higher level??
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No you are wrong.
They count as multiple downloads as well as multiple royalties.
A level 5 file is not going to become level 6. If it didn't bring more royalty, then what's the point?
Anyway, look at the first post carefully. The answer is there. |
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Uploaded files:528 | Total Sales: 4985
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Message posted at 08/17/2009, 01:58:21 AM by Jaboardm |
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Wow, after reading this I feel like dirt because I'm not exclusive.
Here's a question, how many of the 6,333,128 images are from exclusive photographers?
DT was my first and favorite site. I originally became exclusive, but decided to cancel it when I was told that I couldn't sell my pictures on my own site. Even the ones rejected by DT. While I make money from DT, not nearly what I do on my site so the choice was obvious. I asked the admin's about this and couldn't get a consistent answer so I chose to be on the safe side leagally...
I have read alot on loyalty and incentive, never realizing I was joining a cult. I thought we enjoyed freedoms like the right to sell my photographs.
I too have several exclusive images on DT, and feel that I will too need to remove their exclusive state. While sites may only pay 20%, I would rather get 20% for a DL there and the 30% for a DT DL for a total of 50% rather than 33%. That's where my incentive is. If you look at my profiles, it is very obvious that my focus has been with DT. Times change, and those who don't adapt will fail...
I have posted images rejected by DT to my other accounts, and some of them have done well there. I believe that different buyers view specific sites and they may have some favorite photographers there. With this in mind, wouldn't it be help to persuade them to switch if they can see some of their favorite photographers here too?
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Nikon Cameras:
D3S, D3, D7000, P7000
Nikon Lens:
200...
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Uploaded files:1497 | Total Sales: 2186
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Message posted at 08/17/2009, 02:16:15 AM by Achilles - member is an admin |
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| Originally posted by Jaboardm: |
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Quoted Message: Wow, after reading this I feel like dirt because I'm not exclusive.
Here's a question, how many of the 6,333,128 images are from exclusive photographers?
DT was my first and favorite site. I originally became exclusive, but decided to cancel it when I was told that I couldn't sell my pictures on my own site. Even the ones rejected by DT. While I make money from DT, not nearly what I do on my site so the choice was obvious. I asked the admin's about this and couldn't get a consistent answer so I chose to be on the safe side leagally...
I have read alot on loyalty and incentive, never realizing I was joining a cult. I thought we enjoyed freedoms like the right to sell my photographs.
I too have several exclusive images on DT, and feel that I will too need to remove their exclusive state. While sites may only pay 20%, I would rather get 20% for a DL there and the 30% for a DT DL for a total of 50% rather than 33%. That's where my incentive is. If you look at my profiles, it is very obvious that my focus has been with DT. Times change, and those who don't adapt will fail...
I have posted images rejected by DT to my other accounts, and some of them have done well there. I believe that different buyers view specific sites and they may have some favorite photographers there. With this in mind, wouldn't it be help to persuade them to switch if they can see some of their favorite photographers here too?
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Can you clarify what makes you feel like dirt? Your post doesn' explain your first statement. |
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Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
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Uploaded files:2669 | Total Sales: 21462
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Message posted at 08/17/2009, 02:16:58 AM by Dirkr |
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| Originally posted by Achilles: |
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Quoted Message:
If this decrease is unfair, why do you feel lower royalties are fair elsewhere? Why do you complain here but support them (quietly or not) elsewhere? |
Though I understand that it looks a bit strange if someone who supports an agency that pays only 20% complains about this cut in royalties here, there is a slight difference:
- When I signed up with that agency (which took some serious thinking due to the 20% royalty) I knew what I would get. Since then they have not lowered the commission, but incresed prices.
- Although the pay only 20%, their higher prices make up for that. A single sale of maximum size brings in considerably more than here on DT with 50% commission.
- It is a huge difference if I accept a certain percentage willingly or if I sign up for one percentage and this is later reduced by the agency. This has happened once before with one other agency, and there the commission was cut from 35% to 32%.
I fully believe that you have a business plan in mind and that you want to increase the revenues for all of us (DT and your contributors).
Your comments about price increases and changes to the levels (and the changes to the subs model) make me hope that indeed this could make up for some of the commission decrease.
But still, going down from 50% to 30% is a bit too drastic, now you are going from one of the best paying (in terms of percentage) microstock sites to the second worst paying site.
Re-considering these percentages would really be a great move.
Thanks for the open discussion, that at least sets you apart from a lot of other agencies.
Dirk |
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Uploaded files:904 | Total Sales: 552
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Message posted at 08/17/2009, 03:23:34 AM by Thefinalmiracle |
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Guys, regardless of the agency commission structure see one thing in common, BEING EXCLUSIVE or SELLING MORE IMAGES is going to give you more money. Everywhere the tier or whatever it might be called professionally increases in terms of payments as soon as you cross your sales milestones. In DT the best part is about LEVELS per image, rest of the agencies increase the percentage based on the total images you sell. So the positive part here is about how you earn more on certain images even if other images aren't faring well.
The current drop of commission will be surely a loss for non-exclusives, but till this time the change was made we made a good commission on the higher commission that only DT was offering. I won't complain because I believe in loyalty.
BOTTOMLINE - I am not exclusive so I am not enough loyal.... hence I dont deserve the high commission. Where I can still remain in profits is by clicking different and selling pictures, so this change won't affect me much.
Wish everyone a lot of luck whether you are exclusive in here or not. The recession will get over in 6-8 months, so get your gear out and start uploading before you are late in the line! |
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Canon Rebel XSI / 450D with Canon 18-55mm IS Lens & Tamron 7...
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Uploaded files:4460 | Total Sales: 11119
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Message edited at 08/17/2009, 06:16:21 AM by Admin |
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Here is an update and some clarifications.
First of all, most of you missed that this will be done gradually. We will not reduce the royalties from 50% to 30% instantly. Instead, we will reduce it in separate stages, with 5-10% per decrease, depending on several factors. The most important one is that we will monitor the revenue paid to most photographers (overall and average) and will proceed with the changes only when these parameters increase, probably on a month to month basis. If not, the next stage will be delayed until possible. This means that as we're making good use of these budgets, we'll give something back. And that is bigger revenue, according to most posts here (negative or positive).
In regards to the exclusive images from non exclusive photographers, we took your suggestions into account and will try to increase the suggested royalties. It is correct that the decrease is drastic. On the other hand you have to understand that the problems I mentioned above exist, so don't expect a very high increase.
We also took into account the suggestions about the additional format via subs. Most probably something will change there. If not right away, very soon.
@ Contributors who said that their models portfolio is exclusive with Dreamstime (or similar cases). If you had few images exclusives and it doesn't make sense to you to keep them this way, feel free to decide what is best for you. No one wants to force you to accept a bad deal.
Nonetheless, if you had a significant part exclusive, it was probably because Dreamstime was paying the best royalties and you were better protected this way. The best part of your portfolio was probably exclusive and you were most probably receiving better revenue from us. If I were in your shoes (or any other exclusive Dreamstimer), the solution would be obvious: become fully exclusive, you already did most of what was require. Better revenue, better protection and an upload bonus. Who else does this for its exclusive photographers? Of course, shameless self-advertising, but if you needed extra motivation to become exclusive, now is the time.
Thanks to everyone who already did it. Please be advised that the exclusivity review might be slower in the next couple of weeks.
We will update this thread with the numbers that changed as soon as we launch. |
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Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
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Uploaded files:2669 | Total Sales: 21462
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Message posted at 08/17/2009, 06:31:46 AM by Dirkr |
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| Originally posted by Achilles: |
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Quoted Message: Here is an update and some clarifications.
First of all, most of you missed that this will be done gradually. We will not reduce the royalties from 50% to 30% instantly. Instead, we will reduce it in separate stages, with 5-10% per decrease, depending on several factors. The most important one is that we will monitor the revenue paid to most photographers (overall and average) and will proceed with the changes only when these parameters increase, probably on a month to month basis. If not, the next stage will be delayed until possible. This means that as we're making good use of these budgets, we'll give something back. And that is bigger revenue, according to most posts here (negative or positive). |
Thanks for the update, and yes, I certainly missed that point.
That sounds a lot better now compared to a direct cut down to 30%. Especially the part about monitoring revenues and delaying further changes if there is no improvement.
Thanks again for your open communication and for listening to our comments. As said before, that really makes you stand out from the rest of the microstock sites - and I very much appreciate that! |
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Uploaded files:904 | Total Sales: 552
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