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Showing posts 81 - 100 of 135 |
| Maybe I'm the first to say I'm not thrilled... :( |
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Message posted at 02/18/2006, 14:59:09 PM by Sophieso |
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Thank you, thank you, thank you to Paul, Ed, Stuart, GV, and all the others who have hung in there with this thread and are bringing some clear thought to the issue. This has made my morning.
As I stated earlier in this thread (which few seem to be reading all the way through), the administration of Dreamstime has the highest ethics in the business and is extremely sensitive to the well-being of their members. The last thing this administration would do is harm their members in any way, and that includes tying your hands and keeping any of you from building the career, or hobby, that you want the most.
Speaking of draconian efforts.......Good golly Miss Molly, the efforts of Dreamstime on the part of its photographers goes way beyond draconian. AGAIN I'm going to ask if everybody has seen the recent issues of How and Print magazines? Call a magazine and ask how much an ad that size costs to be placed on the inside back and front cover. Go ahead and do it, but make sure you're sitting down because it is big bucks!!! Those are magazine directed towards buyers, not more photographers to compete against you. Dreamstime gives their photographers a larger commission on their works sold, then turns around and spends their profits on bringing you more clients!
The bottom line is if you want to play the field and enjoy the game of microstock hopping (which can be fun), Dreamstime is saying to go ahead and have a good time, but they're still going to give you extra money. How can you not be willing to keep a photo on a site with that kind of attitude? Dreamstime is pulling out all the stops for us, and they're asking very little in return. |
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Uploaded files: 268 | Total Sales: 828
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Message edited at 02/18/2006, 15:34:52 PM by Damir00 |
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| Originally posted by Paulcowan: |
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Quoted Message: It's about people being afraid that they might lose a big percentage of their income if another company ever decided to take draconian action.
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Ultimately, "what if" is what this is all about. Imagine if the draconian measure you mentioned included...say...80% payout to contributors. Or agency-wide profit sharing. Or etc etc etc. Stranger things have happened, and suddenly, the draconian adjective shifts to the other foot.
Achilles made a nicely reasoned post laying out DT's position. Personally I don't see a universal right/wrong on this, people will have to think through the possibilities themselves and find the most reasonable response for their personal situation. Changes out of our individual control are sweeping the biz, all we can do is adapt to the best of our abilities.
I remain on the "12 is far too long" side of the ledger, but I don't begrudge DT the right to run their business as they see fit.
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A large wooden box with a tiny little hole.
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Uploaded files: 0 | Total Sales: 7
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Message posted at 02/18/2006, 15:50:58 PM by Paulcowan |
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Ah, Sophie, stop sounding so much like a sales pitch. A good deal doesn't need selling, it sells itself. Or maybe you're just an enthusiast, I don't know. Maybe it's a cultural difference thing. Anyway, I would love to see those ads. Are they posted anywhere? There's a whole bunch of us out in the backwoods, you know, in Qatar or Romania or Malaysia, where such mags do not easily penetrate. |
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Canon EOS 5D Mk2, Canon EOS 5D, Canon 70-200 f2.8l zoom, 17-...
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Uploaded files: 3403 | Total Sales: 14704
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Message posted at 02/18/2006, 15:59:49 PM by Paulcowan |
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| Originally posted by Damir00: |
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| Quoted Message: Imagine if the draconian measure you mentioned included...say...80% payout to contributors. Or agency-wide profit sharing. Or etc etc etc. Stranger things have happened, |
I struggle to think of stranger things that HAVE happened. But, yes, it might be a bad move to agree to this deal. On the other hand, I think most gamblers would reckon that the return outweighs the risk.
Another point is that the fears are rooted in the idea that the other site is always going to have a higher return per image than this one. That is not written in stone.
And I will say that on the whole DT seems to be more committed to looking after its suppliers than most sites. |
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Canon EOS 5D Mk2, Canon EOS 5D, Canon 70-200 f2.8l zoom, 17-...
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Uploaded files: 3403 | Total Sales: 14704
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Message posted at 02/18/2006, 16:50:12 PM by Fotosmurf02 |
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I just spend about an hour (or was it longer?? I lost track of time..) reading through all the posts in this thread and I think there is probably something to say for every single argument that has been raised. I intend to stay with DT as I think they are one of the most promising sites in the business. In the course of the time that I have been here - a little over 6 months - the sales has grown enormously which leads me to believe there are greater things to come.
Twelve months may seem like a long time, but since I am not planning on going exclusive with anyone at this point in time I don't see an issue with that. If I would consider that in the future, it just means I will have to plan a little further ahead. I will definitely be starting to have images here exclusively as the deal that Achilles pointed out sounds fair and reasonable to me. And who knows what tomorrow will bring? I certainly think it will bring great things for DT!! |
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Canon EOS 5D
17-40mm F4.0L Canon
70-200 2.8L IS Canon
70-...
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Uploaded files: 6532 | Total Sales: 16491
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Message posted at 02/18/2006, 17:34:41 PM by Sophieso |
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Howdy Paul. No cultural differences, we're all just humans trying to muddle through the day:-) And, yep, I am an enthusiast, probably because right from the beginning Dreamstime had an aesthetic I enjoyed. They took chances on some of my submissions other agencies wouldn't, and they paid off.
Thanks for bringing up the fact that a lot of people don't have access to those magazines. They are posted on Dreamstime at How And Print Ads. These are the two top trade magazines for the design industry, at least on this side of the pond. |
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Uploaded files: 268 | Total Sales: 828
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Message posted at 02/18/2006, 19:01:30 PM by Bogdan |
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My 2 eurocents... ;-)
I'm working and earning my money from another industry. Probably other do the same... What attracts me most about microstock it's its flexibility and transparency. You can upload at night from home, from your laptop in the park or from your work while you answer some customer's email... But what makes it the perfect job is the fact that you can anytime quit. I can disable my files and accout anytime because I don't agree with some agency's policy or prices, or maybe I don't want to be associated with a person (model) or a place appearing in my photos, or maybe just because I don't feel it is representative for my portofolio anymore... I WON'T do it, at least in the near future, but I CAN ! and this is very important.
I am selling photos as royality-free license for almost 1.5 years. Everytime some agency tries to force exclusivity or tie themselves from the photographers in any way this kind of flames appear on the forums. Some newcommers quit just by reading the posts... and after a few pages of oppinions the agency changes their taughts...
I wouldn't force imposing such measureas... There are other ways to keep your photographers/photos close: increasing sales (firstly, not after), fairness and friendlyness...
As a solution for the problem caused by disabled images, I suggest a certain period (3 months seems fair) for the disabled image to still be on-line for the ones who bookmarked it, but not to be available for search and addition to lightboxes/collections. Also a notice can be send to all owners of lightboxes/collection containing the photo. If the image has been used in advertising dreamstime, you can contact the photographer to ask the right to continue using it or come to an agreement with him.
I have to add that I like a lot the new interface... Good luck furhter on ! |
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Camera: Canon EOS 500D (15MP)
Lenses: Tamron ...
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Uploaded files: 764 | Total Sales: 3988
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Message edited at 02/19/2006, 00:38:59 AM by Dennist1 |
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Maybe this doesn't belong to this thread, but the subject of this thread is what has me questioning it so I'm going to post it here. Admin, please move or delete if deamed off topic.
My question is: Do most designers have accounts at multiple agencies, or do they stick to one or two? In other words if my images are at site A,B.C am I targeting a different set of customers at each site or essentially the same set of customers thru different channels?
What I'm getting at is if I were to drop agency B and C, would the customers that have been purchasing my images there end up buying them here, or would they just buy someone else's images over there?
This question is a variable for me in the exclusivity decision; and also a factor in deciding whether to contribute to sites that are not paying what I concider a reasonable commision. If the general idea is that DT is working with the same basic group of customers, I wish to stop undercutting myself 'over there' and exclusivity would also become a possibility.
Please note, I am talking overall. Obviously there are some that have accounts at all, and some that only buy from one place. I hope a few can understand what I'm asking; the prose was not flowing freely!
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Canon Digital SLR, 30D, 300D. 17-85 F4; 70-200 2.8L, many ot...
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Uploaded files: 364 | Total Sales: 797
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Message posted at 02/19/2006, 03:24:03 AM by Asist |
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I can understand why DT wants the images to stay up for at least a year, but I belive this is too long, and too much to ask when we are talking about a site dealing in Microstock.
Terms like 1 year commitment is more like the high priced stocksites. Also we as photographers has to consider constant changes in the industry, and adapt to them as fast as we can.
personally, I would like to suggest, that the time is set to max 6 months, this beeing a reasoneble compromise between the desires of DT for consistensy and the desires for freedom from the photographers.
Alternatively, get messages out to all those who have lightboxed a picture, so that thye can download it befores its removed, and gvive 1 month to do so.
Thanks
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Nikon D-200 with assortment of lenses
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Uploaded files: 467 | Total Sales: 1510
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Message posted at 02/19/2006, 03:47:30 AM by Beckyabell |
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Why would anyone want to go through all the work of setting up the lights, finding a model/subject/concept.... shooting that subject, than editing it (levels. curves.filters ect. ect. ect.) beyond that is the frustration of getting your HARD EARNED IMAGE approved (by whatever site) and then you would consider on taking the -image in question- off of a site within a year???????? Whats the point?????? Shutup and let your photos make you money! I'm not planning on disabling any images...ever! why would you go through all the work if you were? you don't have to go exclusive. just leave your images up....You can always take another picture! Lets not get all bent out of shape. :)
Becky |
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Canon 5D.... Mamiya Rb67....assorted lenses
photo...
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Uploaded files: 1486 | Total Sales: 7141
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Message posted at 03/08/2006, 08:50:46 AM by Photoeuphoria |
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Lot's to read here... Wow!
The 12 month wait before removing an image would scare me with a smaller, unestablished site. But not with DT. This is one of the safest places for your images and a strong money maker, too. And, as Bobby pointed out in the other thread, many of you are already locked into similar agreements at other sites whether you know it or not.
I don't have time to get deep into this today, I've got a day long shoot with 5 teen girls. Pray for me. I may be hairless tomorrow. LOL But I do understand and sympathize with both sides of the issue and in the long run, it feel would benefit us all if this rule was implemented. So I'm all for it. If you have doubts, if you have to keep your options open for some bigger and better thing you see coming down the road, then do what you have to do. But I've never found that this sort of thing has gotten in the way of any buy-out or exclusive deal that I have made on the side. As I said, not with a strong and well established stock site like DT. Not only will I keep my regular portfolio growing here, but I will continue to sell assignment images each month, too.
Okay, last minute prop shopping for today... Gotta run! :) -jaimie
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Uploaded files: 7067 | Total Sales: 49012
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Message posted at 03/08/2006, 09:12:49 AM by Bobwyo |
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Best of luck with the teeners, Jaimie, you'll need it! ;-)
Thanks for the sensible words. From the opposite end of the contributor scale (small portfolio (but growing) few downloads (but growing)), I'm glad to see a voice of reason in this wildly emotional discussion.
Achilles posted in another thread like this just last night a link to one of his original posts on the 12-month issue. Nowhere in that post was exclusivity mentioned, except as an option for the photographer overall. Achilles also stated that photos could be disabled after consultation with admin. My experience here is that admins are all caring, helpful people and I believe that if you had a good reason to disable an image (all-rights sales were specifically mentioned as a good reason), they'd let you disable.
I'm going to continue posting my little dribble of images and am seriously considering exclusivity. I believe DT is really trying to help us. Besides, if they aren't, the karma will get them eventually. ;-)
Bob |
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Canon EOS 5D
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Uploaded files: 85 | Total Sales: 178
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Message posted at 03/08/2006, 09:53:29 AM by Has1sue |
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Will be happy when we see Photoeuphoria's Uploads rise to 2827 then we will know that they survived the teenage girls on mass shoot LOL
One is enough for me ;)
Sue |
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Canon 5D MK11/ 24-105L 17-40L 70-200L/iMac/CS2
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Uploaded files: 273 | Total Sales: 1939
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Message posted at 03/08/2006, 11:28:35 AM by Jakich |
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I will put in my 2 credits worth. As a new comer to stock photos I see flexibility as the key. A 12 month lock in does not provide this.
If you want stability for your images, i am sure you could do that with a say 1 or 3 month lag on the removal of images. ie. you choose to remove an image but it doesn't get remove for 1 month (maybe with a ticking clock so desingers can see this).
I though photos were already locked in for 3 months from submission so this would just be an extension of that rather than a wholesale change to lock in all photos for 12 months. |
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Canon 20D (and Canon Ixux 500
Canon Ixux 55)
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Uploaded files: 322 | Total Sales: 1398
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Message edited at 03/09/2006, 08:46:42 AM by Lisafx |
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| Originally posted by Jakich: |
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Quoted Message:
I though photos were already locked in for 3 months from submission so this would just be an extension of that rather than a wholesale change to lock in all photos for 12 months. |
No, at the moment Dreamstime does not have a 3 month image commitment. You can remove your images at any time.
Jaimie, I am happy to hear your input on this. As one of the most successful photogs on the site it is great to read what you have to say - especially when it is presented so evenhandedly :D
I am glad you mentioned the Assignments. I have noticed that many contributors who are arguing so vehemently in favor of the 12 month restriction, are also people who have sold images to Assigments.
As such, none of you would be eligible for exclusivity at another site, so you guys really aren't risking anything by keeping your images here for 12 months. For those of us who have been keeping our options open, it is a completely different matter. We would be forced to make a choice that would limit our future career options.
I respect everyone's opinion on this issue, but it is important to point out that the people most vocally in favor of this deal are the ones that already have nothing to lose. |
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Canon 5D, 40D, Various lenses, flashes, studio lights, light...
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Uploaded files: 5398 | Total Sales: 37796
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Message posted at 03/09/2006, 10:29:52 AM by Achilles - member is an admin |
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Lisa, nobody is forcing you to do this way or another way. You can decide what to do. We want to give you about double than what you make right now. We will not raise prices and support this growth only by ourselves and buyers' side.
If you are not interested in this, we do understand, but is not fair to force our hand by repeating the same thing, when the only restriction would be choosing exclusivity.
We are very careful when selecting our photographers, so the competition among them is less powerful. This is one of the advantages for staying with us or becoming exclusive with us.
On the other hand, we want to bring significant revenue to each of you and to keep it increasing in time. This means that if you leave, another photographer will replace you. It is room for everyone and sales for everyone. |
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Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
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Uploaded files: 2334 | Total Sales: 15128
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Message edited at 03/09/2006, 10:48:48 AM by Lisafx |
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Achilles, I am sorry if I struck a nerve. I am certainly not trying to "force anybody's hand".
This discussion affects many people contributing to the site and I am very appreciative that you have permitted this exchange of ideas. I still hold out hope that a compromise solution can be found that works for everybody :-D. |
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Canon 5D, 40D, Various lenses, flashes, studio lights, light...
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Uploaded files: 5398 | Total Sales: 37796
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Message edited at 03/09/2006, 10:59:49 AM by Photoshow |
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Nikon D2X, Nikon D300
Nikon VR Lenses 24-120 VR, 18-200 VR,...
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Uploaded files: 7247 | Total Sales: 24732
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Message edited at 03/09/2006, 11:10:26 AM by Photoshow |
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| Originally posted by Lisafx: |
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Quoted Message:
I am glad you mentioned the Assignments. I have noticed that many contributors who are arguing so vehemently in favor of the 12 month restriction, are also people who have sold images to Assignments.
As such, none of you would be eligible for exclusivity at another site, so you guys really aren't risking anything by keeping your images here for 12 months. For those of us who have been keeping our options open, it is a completely different matter. We would be forced to make a choice that would limit our future career options.
I respect everyone's opinion on this issue, but it is important to point out that the people most vocally in favor of this deal are the ones that already have nothing to lose. |
Lisa, I fear you may be a little misguided when it comes to what can disqualify you from going Exclusive at that other site (not that I understand why anyone would ever choose to limit their earnings so severely anywise)
Just because someone has sold the rights to a photo prior to looking to go exclusive with the other place they are not going to be excluded. I mean seriously, they are not going to reject a photographer that can be exceedingly profitable to them because they have done Work for Hire in the past before coming to them. If that is the case then I was Excluded before I ever submitted my first image to a stock agency as I started out doing Work For Hire Advertising and Production Documentation before coming to stock. Even though I have sold the rights to a good deal of images I can say with confidence that should I choose to apply for Exclusivity with the other site today they would accept me.
Of course though I guess in theory you are correct in your assumption that I have nothing to loose because to me absolute Exclusivity like you are leaving your options open for is a Fools Bet and I would never make that choice, it is simply way to limiting for me to consider. To join that particular Exclusivity program would cost me a solid 5K in earnings per month. So in all honestly it is not a matter of having nothing to loose but a matter of have everything to gain by closing that door, at least for me, your mileage may vary. |
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Nikon D2X, Nikon D300
Nikon VR Lenses 24-120 VR, 18-200 VR,...
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Uploaded files: 7247 | Total Sales: 24732
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Message posted at 03/09/2006, 11:18:29 AM by Lisafx |
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| Originally posted by Photoshow: |
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Quoted Message:
Lisa, I fear you may be a little misguided when it comes to what can disqualify you from going Exclusive at that other site
Just because someone has sold the rights to a photo prior to looking to go exclusive with the other place they are not going to be excluded. |
Sorry, but you are wrong. Selling the rights to your photo means it will continue to be sold royalty free and WOULD disqualify you for their exclusivity. Check with customer support if you don't believe me.
As you say, Bobby, it doesn't matter to you because you never want to consider exclusivity anywhere, but it does matter to a lot of us and I am sure we can all agree that it is good to have all the facts and make an informed decision :-) |
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Canon 5D, 40D, Various lenses, flashes, studio lights, light...
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Uploaded files: 5398 | Total Sales: 37796
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