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General Request to Photographers

Author Message
Scarrott
9 posts
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 10:35:24 AM by Scarrott
This is a general peeve from a designer about photos on this site (and other stock sites in general). Please could photographers stop cropping their photos in an arty way. I know it looks nice and is the modern, in thing to do, but it massively limits what designers can do with them. I can crop it myself as required for the project.



For example, I might be doing a menu for a customer and they need a picture of a burger on it. I can often find the perfect looking burger and chips that I want very quickly, but 9 times out of 10 it seems to have been cropped right down the middle or just cutting a corner off in such a manner that it won't work. It generally seems to be the better quality shots that are cropped too, so I end up using some poorly lit and less appetising looking picture because it is all I can use.



Likewise, I recently needed a picture of a phone operator to go in the header of a website with their contact number. Loads of great pictures of nice looking women with their headsets on, but almost every one had been cut off to the left and right around the shoulders, so I couldn't use any of them.



I hope some people read this and take it on board, as I can't be the only designer who finds this a problem.


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Igordabari
3764 posts
62
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 11:11:26 AM by Igordabari
I can understand you. But in SOME cases non-cropped picture might be refused because of COMPOSITION. So, one has to crop images "in an arty way" (c) to allow them to be accepted. That's so...
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2485
Scarrott
9 posts
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 11:45:42 AM by Scarrott
I understand that, and i get that some people see a non cropped image of exactly the same thing and reject the image because it doesn't look as pretty. Just frustrating for most designers i'd image who want to crop it their own way.


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Wisconsinart
1557 posts
80
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 12:12:25 PM by Wisconsinart
This is a pet peeve of mine also. But as a photographer I get rejections for poor composition when allowing space around the image portion of interest. The "Rule of Thirds" ahould sometimes be at the discretion of the Buyer. But I'm forced to crop if I want to avoid the rejection.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

Uploaded files:1903 | Total Sales: 10810
Melonstone
836 posts
51
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 12:14:06 PM by Melonstone
Admin do read these posts so I'm sure your frustration will be heard & it may be that more non-cropped images are approved in the future :-)
CANON EOS 50D

Uploaded files:967 | Total Sales: 2378
Igordabari
3764 posts
62
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 12:38:13 PM by Igordabari
I hope that this discussion will be useful for all us (meaning photographers, designers and admins).
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2485
Starletdarlene
341 posts
79
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 12:47:40 PM by Starletdarlene
Thank you Scarrott for your input. I think all of us Photographers appreciate any input from Buyers that will help us produce better and more usable images.


Uploaded files:1005 | Total Sales: 3831
Dgphotographic
148 posts
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 13:05:48 PM by Dgphotographic
Hi Paul, This "negative space" issue was mentioned a while back, and since then I have had this in mind.    Stressed office worker.   
Nikon. D300. D60 35 and 50mm 18-55 28-200 and 70-300 Niss...

Uploaded files:114 | Total Sales: 70
Xiaofeng123
467 posts
40
Message posted at 01/12/2012, 20:53:04 PM by Xiaofeng123

Originally posted by Igordabari:
Quoted Message: I can understand you. But in SOME cases non-cropped picture might be refused because of COMPOSITION. So, one has to crop images "in an arty way" (c) to allow them to be accepted. That`s so...








totaly agree with you.
Nikon D3100,18-55 lens,35 1.8G lens.

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Calyx22
1145 posts
57
Message posted at 01/13/2012, 00:26:10 AM by Calyx22
I agree about the composition and rejection issue. It's very difficult to have non-cropped pictures accepted sometimes because the subject doesn't fall in the rule of thirds, more in the center, so that there can be negative space. I'd love to have an admin respond here. :)
Nikon D80, Nikon D300s

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Scarrott
9 posts
Message posted at 01/13/2012, 04:01:15 AM by Scarrott
Interesting stuff. I wasn't aware of how stringent the rules on acceptance of images can be having not done any photography myself (i'd struggle to hold the thing the right way up!) The pre-cropped images are probably great for anyone writing articles and wanting an image to go directly in, but i'd have thought the majority of users of this site are graphic designers like myself who need to be able to use images in many different ways. Negative space is normally a good thing for designers, especially when using images as backgrounds. So many of my designs end up having photos fading out quite abruptly on one side so the photo doesn't just stop with a line.



It does seem that the problem is more with admins rejecting non-cropped images than with photographers failing to take them, so I hope the admins read this and take it on board. Let us have the choice wherever possible.


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Dudau
616 posts
76
Message edited at 01/13/2012, 04:07:18 AM by Admin
The composition of an image is a very subjective matter.



In this specific case, I think that the buyer speaks mainly about studio shots, which are better left uncropped (as in "don't crop the subject, crop the picture"). You can still use the rule of thirds without cropping the subject, right?



Take these two photos as an example:



1. 38 downloads, taken with the rule of thirds, subject uncropped:



   Customer support operator   



2. The same model, same shooting, but only 6 downloads probably because the subject is cropped:



   Customer support operator   



As a final note, we don't like to refuse good pictures.



I hope this explanation about cropping will be useful in the future for you.



Regarding other shootings, cropping may add some appeal to your pictures, but let me repeat myself: don't crop the subject, crop the picture.
Canon 1D Mk III, Canon 7D, Canon 20mm f2.8, 28mm f1.8, 50m...

Uploaded files:3802 | Total Sales: 12184
Wisconsinart
1557 posts
80
Message posted at 01/13/2012, 06:30:45 AM by Wisconsinart
Viorel_dudau, it's easy to post good images but it's very difficult to post rejected images that shouldn't have been rejected. I just had one recently that would have been a good example.



Very frustrating when an image is judged on straight composition instead of how a designer will use it.



Part of the problem too is most reviewers are photographers who are trained as photographers, not designers or artists. What may be an awkward looking image is not awkward once a designer crops it as needed.



I probably could have cropped the image and resubmitted just to make the composition more pleasing but then it defeated what the original poster struggles with.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

Uploaded files:1903 | Total Sales: 10810
Dudau
616 posts
76
Message edited at 01/13/2012, 06:57:23 AM by Admin
Wisconsinart, if you have problems with a refusal you can always write to our support and ask for an explanation. We do respond to such emails. You can also write your arguments in the "Comment for editor" field during first submission. We are reading them during the review.



Refusal reasons are general and written in such a way that they match most of the problems, because, unfortunately, we can't give a hand written custom reason to each refused photo.



This thread is about cropping, not about refusals, and my example is real, not hypothetical.
Canon 1D Mk III, Canon 7D, Canon 20mm f2.8, 28mm f1.8, 50m...

Uploaded files:3802 | Total Sales: 12184
Demonike
614 posts
72
Message posted at 01/13/2012, 06:52:31 AM by Demonike - member is an admin

Originally posted by Igordabari:
Quoted Message: I can understand you. But in SOME cases non-cropped picture might be refused because of COMPOSITION. So, one has to crop images "in an arty way" (c) to allow them to be accepted. That`s so...




Not true. We editors, always prefer non-cropped images and in fact refuse quite few because they have been cropped on all sides. Unfortunately, many prof-photographers do not listen to us, or even worse, start an argument that what they do and decide is THE way or no way at all... This is especially true in case of portraits, it seems. People submit glam portraits that should be inserted onto mag covers 1:1, but continue to neglect the fact that there are very few magazines that can not afford to shoot it's cover per case and turn to MICROSTOCK for a glam cover picture. Having been in that industry for over a decade, I personally can not imagine such a case.



The bottom line is, we are 100% behind you on this, Paul, and continue to enforce this policy on the contributors. Designers should speak up on such matters more, really! :)
Nikon D7000, Nikkor Fisheye 10.5mm/2.8, Nikkor 50mm/1.4, Nik...

Uploaded files:3286 | Total Sales: 22004
Demonike
614 posts
72
Message posted at 01/13/2012, 07:00:51 AM by Demonike - member is an admin

Originally posted by Dgphotographic:
Quoted Message: Hi Paul, This "negative space" issue was mentioned a while back, and since then I have had this in mind.    Stressed office worker.   




David, you mix things up here. Negative space or whitespace is at the other end of the spectrum. Your referenced image would be rejected today, because this empty space is not needed. The original post was about cropping, cutting away parts of the model or object, just to emphasize a part or detail. In case of portraits the hair and neck get cropped out to draw attention to the face and makeup. But this renderes the image unusable for many, because it cannot be put on another background.



Excessive whitespace has also irritated buyers because the have to pay for nothing (no info). Photographers should provide an image that is maximizing the use of a photographic frame without cropping away important parts.
Nikon D7000, Nikkor Fisheye 10.5mm/2.8, Nikkor 50mm/1.4, Nik...

Uploaded files:3286 | Total Sales: 22004
Linda81
32 posts
Message posted at 01/13/2012, 07:07:46 AM by Linda81
...don't crop the subject, crop the picture.

But how with this ''negative'' sample :

   Red hard hats   



Five objects in one photo, all cropped (author... Viorel Dudau!), but wery good sales!
Samsung

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Scarrott
9 posts
Message edited at 01/13/2012, 07:17:42 AM by Scarrott
Actually, for me the whitespace/negative space around that image is often very useful when using an image as a background. It allows us to put text over the top of the whitespace part of the image rather than having to either clone the background colour or fade the image out. Whilst this is easy in the image below, with less monotone background it can be very tricky.



These two examples should show what i mean. I tried to post the images directly but the forum is having none of it.

With Whitespace

Without Whitespace


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Dudau
616 posts
76
Message edited at 01/13/2012, 07:53:51 AM by Admin
Linda, I think we are talking about different things here. There are only 5 or 6 pictures like that in the entire database, (and not for long I suppose, now that you brought it up:) ) , but you can find thousands of single phone operators and thousands of single burgers.



And, as I previously said, we don't like to refuse good pictures.





The buyer said something: he needs less cropped pictures. If you want to listen to him or not, it's your choice.



By the way, he's not the only one, this was discussed many times in past.
Canon 1D Mk III, Canon 7D, Canon 20mm f2.8, 28mm f1.8, 50m...

Uploaded files:3802 | Total Sales: 12184
Wisconsinart
1557 posts
80
Message posted at 01/13/2012, 08:11:58 AM by Wisconsinart
The image was a weird concept so I didn't think it was worth the effort for a questionable image. I do like to experiment, though.



I always cringe at writing support with these types of rejections because if it turns out to be this one particular reviewer well... let's not go there.



In the end this subject will never be truly resolved to everyone's satisfaction so you just move on.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

Uploaded files:1903 | Total Sales: 10810
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