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Search results issues for relevancy

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Mirceani
185 posts
66
Message posted at 04/13/2012, 08:32:06 AM by Mirceani
got it, thank you
Cameras: Canon EOS Rebel T3i, T1i ; Lens: Tamron 18-270 PZD...

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Sleiselei
406 posts
<10
Message posted at 04/13/2012, 20:25:58 PM by Sleiselei
Search system is not work this time?
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Rosedarc
1458 posts
69
Message posted at 04/13/2012, 22:07:06 PM by Rosedarc

Originally posted by Saap585:
Quoted Message: Do i have to do something like that if i find wrong keywords like the fellow contributor did in my case?

Like Brad Calkins says, be careful if you decide to report a "wrong keyword" and always check the keywords and the photo together (not by just looking at the photo and the only word you typed as a keyword for your search).
Some examples: you could look for baby and decide to report that photo of the tomato that came up in your search thinking it is a spam, when in fact it is a correct keyword because it is a baby tomato as opposed to a tomato. Or you could search for a pigeon and come up with weird photos but by looking closely, the word pigeon is actually relevant (pigeon is used in a yoga pose, or in together with hole for a type of storage).
Spelling mistakes are also interesting; some words are hard to spell for some foreigners and it's good to spell them wrongly in your keywords such as colour and color.
I occasionally contact a contributor if I see a blatant mistake that will stop him/her from selling, but I definitely don't make it my mission to look for spam words - that just annoys contributors.
White will come up in thousands of searches of animals isolated on a white background.
The words that compose the titles are, I think, the ones that weigh the most in the algorithm for Search by relevancy, so just pay attention to them especially and use the spelling check tool.
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Enigmacypher
423 posts
71
Message posted at 04/13/2012, 22:16:06 PM by Enigmacypher
Saap585, I noticed that you fixed the spelling of Labrador in your title, but it is still listed as "lambrador" in the description.


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Saap585
153 posts
70
Message posted at 04/13/2012, 22:42:33 PM by Saap585
@ Enigmacypher thnx again !!!!;) ...
Nikon, Sigma, Strobe, Speedlights

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Red
1684 posts
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 00:24:23 AM by Red
Saap585 - Since you are asking about keywords this might be helpful - It is best to describe the object in your pics and not the intended use or emotion that might go along with it. Leave that to the buyer. For example your swim goggles have the keywords - cap, climate, exercise, happy, idyllic, portrait, and others that are not really relevant. Goggles are not a cap, they are not happy (I guess you are trying to imply that if someone is swimming they are happy?), what is idyllic about swim goggles, a portrait is "a painting, drawing, photograph, or engraving of a person." These keywords are not helpful and might penalize the placement of your image in the search.

Same for your photo of red and white sugared strawberry gel candy. In the keywords you have orange (they are not orange), marshmallow and blackberry. Are they strawberry or blackberry or marshmallow? If you are using a keywording tool you still have to filter out the bad words it might choose for you. If you have problems with english consider submitting a few of your images to the keymastering program to try out those results.


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Androniques
814 posts
60
Message edited at 04/14/2012, 06:12:04 AM by Androniques
Red, while I do see your point of excluding/avoiding irrelevant keywords, I disagree that one must exclude conceptually relevant words. Maybe the title should not contain those, but (imho) the description can be used not only to describe the image contents but also the authors' idea/concept. The buyer will either agree or not, of course, but I would leave it to the chance that the buyer might appreciate your own thinking and view of the image, and possibly find additional way of using it.

On another note, I don't understand why you're saying that "These keywords ... might penalize the placement of your image in the search. " - how? If I check the search results for practically any subject, I see many pictures that are irrelevant or hardly-relevant to my search, because these pictures contain irrelevant keywords, and these images are not penalized in any way, except in the case of someone flagging them eventually (which does not seem to work correctly anyway).
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Afagundes
3244 posts
<10
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 06:35:06 AM by Afagundes
I agree with you Andromatic, it seems like the number of keywords doesnt change the positioning, the case of the white labrador shows it quite clearly, there are images with 10 keywords and two of them are white labrador and images with more than 20 keywords and they are placed more or less in the same place.
That doesnt mean we should use irrelevant keywords, but as much as possible relevant keywords we can think of.
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Androniques
814 posts
60
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 06:41:08 AM by Androniques
well, I did not mean to justify using irrelevant keywords, but rather to demystify a bit the search-engine algorithm :)
Nikon D5000, 18-105mm Nikkor VR, Nikon CP-8800 (rarely,...

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Saap585
153 posts
70
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 07:20:59 AM by Saap585
Hi everybody ! @red, well, i use a well known web tool for keywording my images and i add or remove some keywords just to give some characteristics my image. Anyway i dont have a lot of otions to personalize an "wireless mouse" image except maybe to change the color or something about the design. All the others 47-48 keywords will be almost the same with billion others "wireless mouse" images.

But i believe that conceptual keywords that maybe will make some difference and here i agree with @Andromantic and @Afagundes.
Some things that for us seems irrelevant maybe for someone else means something. When i found an irrelevant "turntable", i think when i was looking for "plyer", i checked his keywords, there was "player" and misspelled again as "plyer".

Also among the keywords was a "dinner" which in first seemed irrelevant to me at least, but after a little thought... hey if t was a designer and i was working for a "dinner" elements illustration, i would like to have among other things (food, candles, wine, maybe a fireplace) and of course some music!!! In this way looks relevant.

For example "goggles" and "happy" to me seems relevant (to be honest, i didnt knew it was among the keywords :) ) it seems to me relevant. Goggles is for swimming usually, and swimming is water and water is holidays, water games, swimming of course, exersise, nice memories, etc so unless someone had very bad pssed experience with swimming or water, it will bring at surface more "happy" feelings and/or memories than "unhappy".

And about the "penalize" my search results, if i judge from the results i find, probably in some cases, will give me some more credits than hold me back.... :)

This is a very interesting talk !!!

Thank you all for your participation and the "food ... for thoughts"
Nikon, Sigma, Strobe, Speedlights

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Saap585
153 posts
70
Message edited at 04/14/2012, 07:23:19 AM by Saap585
Hi everybody ! @red, well, i use a well known web tool for keywording my images and i add or remove some keywords just to give some characteristics my image. Anyway i dont have a lot of options to personalize a "wireless mouse" image except maybe to change the color or something about the design. All the others 47-48 keywords will be almost the same with billion others "wireless mouse" images.

But i believe that conceptual keywords that maybe will make some difference and here i agree with @Andromantic and @Afagundes.
Some things that for us seems irrelevant maybe for someone else means something. When i found an irrelevant "turntable", i think when i was looking for "plyer", i checked his keywords, there was "player" and misspelled again as "plyer".

Also among the keywords was a "dinner" which in first seemed irrelevant to me at least, but after a little thought... hey if t was a designer and i was working for a "dinner" elements illustration, i would like to have among other things (food, candles, wine, maybe a fireplace) and of course some music!!! In this way looks relevant.

For example "goggles" and "happy" to me seems relevant (to be honest, i didnt knew it was among the keywords :) ). Goggles is for swimming usually, and swimming is water and water is holidays, water games, swimming of course, exersise, nice memories, etc so unless someone had very bad pssed experience with swimming or water, it will bring at surface more "happy" feelings and/or memories than "unhappy".

And about the "penalize" my search results, if i judge from the results i find, probably in some cases, will give me some more credits than hold me back.... :)

This is a very interesting talk !!!

Thank you all for your participation and the "food ... for thoughts"
Nikon, Sigma, Strobe, Speedlights

Uploaded files:461 | Total Sales: 331
Red
1684 posts
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 09:29:00 AM by Red
I don't think that we will really know how the "most relevant" search will behave until the fixes are in place. The comment I made about penalizing an image in search results will have to wait to be proven, or not. However, I know that buyers get mad when they search for something specific and find images that are not close to what they are looking for because they contain irrelevant keywords. They ignore those contributors if it happens on a regular basis. There is an "Exclude Contributor" option in the advanced search and it is used. Power buyers don't leisurely search. They want to find what they need quickly.

In the examples I stated above if someone was searching for a "portrait of a happy swimmer" they will find the goggles image, which does not apply. If they are looking for "marshmallow candy" they will find the image of strawberry gels. They might just pass over those images, they might report them, they might exclude that contributor.

The search algorithm has been a mystery from day one so any guess is just that. Extra keywords to describe an emotion or added to fit a broad range of possible uses may help but may also cause a buyer to skip over that seller's images in the big picture.


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Mirceani
185 posts
66
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 09:52:43 AM by Mirceani
Don't you agree that search algorithm should not be a mystery to us contributors, and that we all should have an idea about how this works? At least in general , not small details?
Cameras: Canon EOS Rebel T3i, T1i ; Lens: Tamron 18-270 PZD...

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Afagundes
3244 posts
<10
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 10:00:25 AM by Afagundes

Originally posted by Mirceani:
Quoted Message: Don`t you agree that search algorithm should not be a mystery to us contributors, and that we all should have an idea about how this works? At least in general , not small details?


I dont know, but they keep it that way, and we know they change it from time to time, so its impossible to tweak your keywords in order to keep being the first in the searches all the time.
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70
Message edited at 04/14/2012, 10:03:38 AM by Julesunlimited
I don't really care about this black box, but all I can say is that the past 2 weeks sales dropped dramatically. That's why I would like to hear an explanation of what DT was/is doing.
Compared to the average of the last 13 months at this moment approx 35% less sales and revenue.
Compared to the last 4 months (which was stable/low deviation and rising) even more than 50%.
Significantly lower than July, August or December (which are the worst months for me).
Portfolio isn't large, but sales and revenues were (very) good.
Hope that it's temporary.

Am I the only one?
Illustrator

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Androniques
814 posts
60
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 10:04:03 AM by Androniques
Red, thanks for your experienced opinion! :)

The keyword relevance discussions are always hot. Yet, the external (i.e. unbiased and real stat. analysis based) view is well described in the article brought out in this "Keywording analysis" thread, from which it is clear that a successful keyword list must be as comprehensive as possible, although as relevant as possible too. Besides, my understanding is that buyers also have different approaches and cannot really agree with each other. So, there will be always a risk of either be missed because of too strict keywording, or be excluded by some buyers because of their irritation in stressful deadline situations. It's all about balanced compromises, isn't it?

As for the search-engine, upgraded or not, personally I don't bother about the search-engine mythical mystery. I will give you an analogy: say, we know the Keppler's laws for the planets' movement, so can we affect that movement? NO! It is great to know and apply it for predictions of the future planets' locations, yet you can't change a thing about these! That's how a fair search-engine should work - nobody should be able to affect its results by knowing some mysterious tricks, except by knowing and following the common-sense rules of keywording. And I believe it is actually the case, because only this way DT will maximize the profits. :)
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Red
1684 posts
Message edited at 04/14/2012, 10:30:00 AM by Red
I agree about trying to out think the search engine. In the thread you mentioned you are getting the opinions of contributors not buyers. The blog link in that thread is from a year ago, are those results still applicable? That thread also discourages plurals spam. Adding emotions or moods is good but only if they apply and are not imagined. This is an old blog, but very relevant today by an expert in the field - Keywording Mistakes to Avoid

I believe that DT does a great job with their Advanced Search options. Yes, we all want to find an image that is perfect just by entering a few keywords in the main, simple search box but that will not happen unless you take the time to filter to set specific parameters. Big buyers know that and the Advanced Search is where they go first. The simple search is and always will be ambiguous (as will the term "most relevant"). If you are trying to understand why one image is more highly placed than another when doing a simple search you will make yourself crazy(ier).



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Afagundes
3244 posts
<10
Message edited at 04/14/2012, 17:31:31 PM by Afagundes
I think the low in sales is not related to the search engine, it could be the new prices, a movement of a compeitor or a crisis in the buyer market.

So far my April sales are a bit lower than last year's and I still think this is related to Eastern holidays

Last week was already good and I see no reason for it not to catch up with last years April or even surpass it.
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Igordabari
3638 posts
62
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 13:00:26 PM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Julesunlimited:
Quoted Message: Am I the only one?


No, there are lot of us :) I had 1 sale for last 10 days. With mean value 45/month averaged over last 13 months...
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Peanutroaster
1513 posts
67
Message posted at 04/14/2012, 13:53:26 PM by Peanutroaster
For me -grinded to a halt lately after a hot and heavy last week in March.
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