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Who knew this ? Yuri Arcurs says Camera Raw is a piece of junk ?

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Mudplucker
469 posts
<10
Message edited at 02/01/2013, 11:28:25 AM by Mudplucker
Yes, it is true and a word of advice to people who are new to digital photography. These are words directly from Yuri Arcurs, the worlds' most downloaded stock photographer. I can't mention the link because he owns the site and is a competitor with this site. But he also is the top seller here on DT as well. He is full of knowledge and you'd be crazy not to soak up every little tidbit of information that you can get your hands on. Zoobie mode to his Q&A section as fast as you can and get some valuable tips on many aspects of stock photography. Many of you know i really was not a fan of Yuri at all until i started reading his blogs and Q&A and realized he did not get where he is by accident. He is extremely smart and has a lot of knowledge to share. Here is verbatim what he says about Camera Raw:


"I'm sorry to say this but Camera Raw is the worst piece of junk you can ever get your hands in. Throw it out as soon as you can. It's awful!However, this is not because of artifacting. It actually handles artifacting quite well. It's mostly because of the color settings and the algorithm used to translate colors into more saturated colors. They are nasty. So stay as far away from it as you possibly can."

Please only positive comments. If you have other great tips you have learned from Yuri please share them. I am keeping a notebook and logging in every bit of written, documented info i can find on him with regards to photography tips, so if you have one you think is worth knowing please share. thanks !
Canon T2i and 5D classic, 85mm 1.8, 50mm 1.8, 70-200 F4 L I...

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Miketea
235 posts
79
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 02:58:23 AM by Miketea
what's he recommending?
Canon 5D MKII 50mm f1.8 28mm 70mm f2.8 60mm f2.8 macro

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Ela9
150 posts
76
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 04:45:24 AM by Ela9
Couldnt agree more with Yuri :)
Canon 60D

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Miketea
235 posts
79
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 04:57:00 AM by Miketea
wo I use this. what do people recommend instead
Canon 5D MKII 50mm f1.8 28mm 70mm f2.8 60mm f2.8 macro

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Tomstox
24 posts
<10
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 06:04:05 AM by Tomstox
So is he recommending JPEG instead then? My cousin who is a rally photographer never shoots RAW, says high quality JPEG are good enough...
Canon 7D / EF-S 15-85/ EF 70-300 / EF 50mm 1.8 / EF 85mm...

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M4rio1979
540 posts
59
Message edited at 02/02/2013, 10:12:19 AM by M4rio1979
Rubbish...I am the one who will be decideing is my image is oversaturated or not. If I feel that CR oversaturated my image, then I will just desaturate it a little bit. Done! I do not see where is the problem.

And certainely he cannot say that some piece of software is crap, because it have tendency to oversatures colors(I did not notice this in a last two years while using Lightroom, which uses CR engine). Desaturate it then. Did he tryed the latest version of Camera Raw?
SONY Alpha a77 SLT camera with MINOLTA 50mm f1.7, SONY AF DT...

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Grisho
698 posts
78
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 09:43:54 AM by Grisho - member is an admin

Originally posted by Mudplucker:
Quoted Message: Please only positive comments. If you have other great tips you have learned from Yuri please share them!


You might want to erase that "great" tip from your notebook.

I've heard arguments for and aginst RAW, but this is the most absurd one.
Fuji X100S, Canon 550D

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Unteroffizier
278 posts
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 10:07:11 AM by Unteroffizier
In my opinion, shoot jpegs when you are sure you can get the output from settings off your camera without much adjustments afterwards. Jpegs dont have that much flexibility as compared to raw when it comes to post processing, tweaking with exposure, colors etc. Raw files retain much more information of the photo when it was captured and allows more leeway should the image required intensive editing.
Entry level digital SLR cameras and lenses.

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Mudplucker
469 posts
<10
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 11:04:09 AM by Mudplucker
Well he made this comment dated Jan 2011 in his Q&A so maybe they have changed their algorithms but i doubt it. Anyway I used his suggestions and my photos have improved dramatically. In fact i just joined a new agency and submitted a lot of new photos and almost every single one got through. I now have 22 files there i think. And even DT is having to approve photos of mine now :) Here is what Yuri suggested:

(1) Always shoot Raw with no sharpening
(2) Process raw file (i use DPP) and save as as 8bit TIFF
(he specifically says not to use 16bit)
(3) Open in Photoshop and process and do sharpening LAST. There is a very good reason that sharpening must be done last.
(4) Save as 12 quality Jpeg for submission to stock agency.
Canon T2i and 5D classic, 85mm 1.8, 50mm 1.8, 70-200 F4 L I...

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Mudplucker
469 posts
<10
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 11:09:38 AM by Mudplucker
and oddly enough my old processed files i recently submitted got rejects. My new ones using Yuri Arcurs' method have all passed, including 2 yesterday. Coincidence ? And to top that off, Yuri was special forces, runs marathons and has before crossed the finish line walking on his hands. As a former athlete myself, i gotta tip my hat to the guy. And to top that off, other than some trade secrets they have he shares most of his information. His people do all the image work manually in Photoshop and that is where some trade secrets are i believe. His former partner Daniel says about 60 percent of "the magic" happens in Photoshop.
Canon T2i and 5D classic, 85mm 1.8, 50mm 1.8, 70-200 F4 L I...

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Enigmacypher
423 posts
71
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 11:47:44 AM by Enigmacypher
Just to clarify, there are (at least) two things people are talking about in this thread -- RAW image files, and Adobe's Camera Raw software.

If I am understanding Mudplucker correctly, Yuri is saying to shoot images in the RAW format but to not use the Adobe Camera Raw software application to process them. Instead, it sounds like he processes the RAW format images in the primary area of Photoshop.

I don't think Yuri is suggesting that we have the camera produce the Jpegs for us.


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Miraclemoments
1245 posts
72
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 12:35:33 PM by Miraclemoments
Yep you need to shoot in RAW but he is against using ACR for processing. What alternatives are there to processing the RAW files?

Might do an experiment and process one image in ACR and process the same RAW file in the primary area of photoshop with my plugin software and check the differences at 100%
Canon 60D I AM A SIGMA AMBASSADOR Sigma 8-16 f4.5-5....

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Igordabari
3776 posts
62
Message edited at 02/02/2013, 21:15:44 PM by Igordabari
I will never believe that damaged image is better than UNdamaged one...
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

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Bogdanzagan
288 posts
78
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 13:53:41 PM by Bogdanzagan
I agree, use inkscape and stop doing photographs :)
Photography I use Nikon 105mm F2.8G, Nikon 35mm F1.8G, Nikon...

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Mudplucker
469 posts
<10
Message posted at 02/02/2013, 22:39:17 PM by Mudplucker
Enigmacypher, you are absolutely correct !

Yuri says ALWAYS shoot RAW but he does not specify what software he uses to process the Raw file in and save as an 8bit TIFF. I use Canon DPP myself but he most likely wouldn't be using that i assume because he doesn't even use Canon equipment anymore i don't think.


He says all work on the TIFF file is done in Photoshop with good old manual labor and skill of his Photoshoppers.

Lastly it gets sharpened and saved as a Jpeg to go to the stock agency. I have tried it like he suggests and at least for me my results are dramatically better than before.

Why can't i be smart enough to figure this stuff out by myself ????? hope i win the Ipad at least anyway :)
Canon T2i and 5D classic, 85mm 1.8, 50mm 1.8, 70-200 F4 L I...

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BCritchley
3752 posts
80
Message posted at 02/03/2013, 02:56:39 AM by BCritchley - member is an admin
Have you got the latest DPP?

Latest version of DPP
Canon 5D MK III & II, Canon 300mm F/2.8L, Canon L 180mm macr...

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68
Message posted at 02/03/2013, 03:34:29 AM by Robinstockphotos
I don't have a RAW mode so I have to use JPEG all the time. I'm just starting out. Would take a while to say if JPEG works just as well as RAW.
I upload only what was shot perfectly. Because if I do adjust my photos in JPEG, they would reject it (except for the bare minimum post processing).
Canon EOS 600D and Canon SX30 IS with 50mm, f/1.8 lens, 18-5...

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M4rio1979
540 posts
59
Message posted at 02/03/2013, 04:14:45 AM by M4rio1979
I want to know why not 16-bit TIFF, but 8-bit TIFF. Is he saying what is the difference?
I always process my images in Lightroom and then export them in Photoshop where I work in PSD format on my image. If I understand correctly PSD is completely loseless format. PSD is also better for me, because I can save my image in PSD with layers if needed and then work on that image again whenever I want.

Where can I find this article if his where he is saying that we need to avoid ACR.
SONY Alpha a77 SLT camera with MINOLTA 50mm f1.7, SONY AF DT...

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BCritchley
3752 posts
80
Message posted at 02/03/2013, 05:12:09 AM by BCritchley - member is an admin
I'm guessing the only diff between editing in 16-bit or 8-bit TIFF for stock is the size of the files and storage space potentially needed. 8bit being able to give great enough quality to edit and produce a high quality JPEG when finished. 8-bit TIFF for me is around 50mb's where as a 16-bit TIFF is 120mb per file.
Canon 5D MK III & II, Canon 300mm F/2.8L, Canon L 180mm macr...

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Afagundes
3247 posts
<10
Message posted at 02/03/2013, 06:09:24 AM by Afagundes
I won´t go with Yuri on that, I am using ACR with Photoshop CS6, its a great software, it improved a lot from the latest version.
The only tricky thing is that you need to maks a bit of the sharpness otherwise it will sharp some artificacts.
I never got used to DPP, it sounds quite complicated, but if you are used to it, I think it process good images.
Before photoshop I was using DxO, its a fantastic software as well, I just found out later that ACR gives me more control.
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