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EEEeeeeek! Comps at 300 DPI...????!!!!

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Wisconsinart
1592 posts
80
Message posted at 02/17/2013, 16:18:08 PM by Wisconsinart
Was poking around and discovered comps images are being provided at 300 DPI. OMG! Comps weren't always that high in resolution.

This makes much easier to steal high quality images for those where the watermark requires little effort to be manipulated. Yes, the comps are smaller in size but they are large enough for most web applications.

I assume this is so Buyers can test print? If that's the case can we at least go down to 150 DPI?

I have so many stolen images floating around I've pretty much given up on reporting, it's a full time job in itself to manage that. Now they're even easier to steal.

OMG!

Just sayin'.

Thanks for listening.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

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Igordabari
3818 posts
62
Message posted at 02/17/2013, 23:07:51 PM by Igordabari
DPI does not relate to the image quality, it is for reference only. The only parameter that relates to quality is resolution which is now the same as earlier.

E.g., if you have 2000x1500 image you can assign 70 DPI or 300 DPI. In first case the print size will be 72.6cm x 54.4cm, for 300DPI resolution it will be 17cm x 12.8cn. But if you print the image in the same format you will get EXACTLY the same quality which is determined ONLY by size expressed in pixels.
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

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Wisconsinart
1592 posts
80
Message edited at 02/18/2013, 06:00:52 AM by Wisconsinart
Igor, DPI matters.

For example, when a friend asks you to do certain edits with a 72 DPI image from a pocket camera.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

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Igordabari
3818 posts
62
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 05:59:23 AM by Igordabari
How? If image size in pixels is fixed one is free to assign any number from 1 DPI to 10000000 DPI. It will change absolutely nothing.
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2568
Wisconsinart
1592 posts
80
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 07:29:14 AM by Wisconsinart
You've never worked with PRINT media?

Stolen images aren't just used on the internet.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

Uploaded files:2057 | Total Sales: 11632
Igordabari
3818 posts
62
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 07:38:17 AM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Wisconsinart:
Quoted Message: Stolen images aren`t just used on the internet.


That's for sure. Nonetheless, if pixels are the same, nothing changes independently of DPI.
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2568
Wisconsinart
1592 posts
80
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 08:02:15 AM by Wisconsinart
Well, let's put it this way: I will start loading images at 72 DPI and tell the Reviewer it doesn't matter.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

Uploaded files:2057 | Total Sales: 11632
Igordabari
3818 posts
62
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 08:13:02 AM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Wisconsinart:
Quoted Message: Well, let`s put it this way: I will start loading images at 72 DPI and tell the Reviewer it doesn`t matter.


OK. But images just can't be of any DPI, they just can be of some size. The larger DPI you assign, the smaller will be print. DPI that is written in the image properties doesn't affet image itself.

I do not think that for reviewers the DPI number is significant. Why? I even suspect that they don't check it. I guess some of my images were accepted with 72 DPI. Anyway, I never tracked this number and never set it to some definite value for my images.
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2568
Miraclemoments
1271 posts
72
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 08:35:29 AM by Miraclemoments
DPI does matter for print...the higher DPI number assigned the greater the density is for prints which makes it possible to get those lovely detailed prints. If you are going to try and print a 72 dpi image on a A1 size canvas you will be left with a good mess if I am correct. Change that to 300dpi and you are in business.

If you have photos developed at a photo shop they will most certainly be printed at 300dpi or very close to that figure.

DPI stands for Dots per inch....soo...more dots equals better print. The higher the dpi is the greater the detail in a print.
Canon 60D I AM A SIGMA AMBASSADOR Sigma 8-16 f4.5-5....

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Sid
644 posts
<10
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 08:44:36 AM by Sid - member is an admin
DPI is irrelevant for reviewers. resolution is all that matters.
Increasing dpi in an image will indeed provide a greater detail, but the result will be smaller in size.
550D and brain.

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Igordabari
3818 posts
62
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 08:46:10 AM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Miraclemoments:
Quoted Message: DPI does matter for print...the higher DPI number assigned the greater the density is for prints which makes it possible to get those lovely detailed prints. If you are going to try and print a 72 dpi image on a A1 size canvas you will be left with a good mess if I am correct. Change that to 300dpi and you are in business. If you have photos developed at a photo shop they will most certainly be printed at 300dpi or very close to that figure. DPI stands for Dots per inch....soo...more dots equals better print. The higher the dpi is the greater the detail in a print.


For sure. That's quite clear. But be agree - if some image of definite size is stolen one can set any DPI to control the print quality. That's why DPI that is written in original image does not matter., Naturally, if I will increase DPI, quality will grow, but print size will decrease (since there are no miracles).
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2568
Dudau
628 posts
76
Message edited at 02/18/2013, 10:30:30 AM by Admin

Originally posted by Wisconsinart:
Quoted Message: Well, let`s put it this way: I will start loading images at 72 DPI and tell the Reviewer it doesn`t matter.


Yes, you can upload images at 72 DPI and will not matter to us. Actually, when you shoot, the original resolution is set in the camera at 72 DPI.

All that matters is the number of pixels in the image (we accept images with minimum 3 million pixels size).

Take this image for example:

   Baby portrait reflecting   

Its comp image has 1024 pixels long x 683 pixels height (0,7 mpx), no matter if you set it at 72, 150 or 300 DPI.

The DPI (dots per inch) is just for reference, to find out how big an image will appear on different mediums.

My LCD display is set at 96 DPI, so I will see the example image (the above comp) in 10x7 inch size on my display.

If I want to print that image, the printing standard is 300 DPI, so I can print the comp at 3x2 inches, without compromising the quality.

So, the actual size of the image is calculated in pixels, not in DPI. The DPI is just a reference, as explained above.

I hope this answers your concern about our comps.
Canon 1D Mk III, Canon 7D, Canon 20mm f2.8, 28mm f1.8, 50m...

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Wisconsinart
1592 posts
80
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 12:03:52 PM by Wisconsinart
I understand the resolution versus DPI, everything Igor said is correct and true, but DPI still matters in "Real Life" situations A higher DPI makes it worthwhile to steal images.

Here is an example of why DPI matters:

http://www.vsellis.com/understanding-dpi-resolution-and-print-vs-web-images/
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

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Parkinsonsniper
1093 posts
72
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 12:14:40 PM by Parkinsonsniper
DPI is just like squeezing the same image. You put 4000 dots in 10 inch or you put 4000 dots in 50 inch. 10 inch will have more dots, hence more quality. You can change it as you like...
- 2x Nikon D300 - Olympus e-PM1 - Nikkor 20mm f2.8 ...

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Igordabari
3818 posts
62
Message edited at 02/18/2013, 12:27:07 PM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Wisconsinart:
Quoted Message: I understand the resolution versus DPI, everything Igor said is correct and true, but DPI still matters in "Real Life" situations A higher DPI makes it worthwhile to steal images.Here is an example of why DPI matters:http://www.vsellis.com/understanding-dpi-resolution-and-print-vs-web-images/


Number of pixels is a physical value. Pixels can be counted. DPI is an artifical reference value, not more. It is needed only to recalculate size expressed in pixels to the print size. Besides, everybody is able to change DPI of any image however one wants. It can be stolen at 72 dpi and then changed to 600 dpi just by hands. One will just change the string '72 dpi' to '600 dpi'. That's easy. But image itself will not change.

You can not produce more wilth an image 3000x2000 pixels and 300 dpi than with THE SAME image of 3000x2000 pixels and 72 dpi. Because they are THE SAME. That's what I meant saying that DPI doesn't matter.
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2568
Wisconsinart
1592 posts
80
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 12:53:00 PM by Wisconsinart
I think my problem here is I have experience where others may not.

300 DPI is REQUIRED by many PRINT shops. They will not accept 72 DPI unless you are willing to waive quality expectations.

It is also an issue for graphic design; if you have two images and need to merge them together into a single composite, it is much easier working with 300 DPI than 72 DPI. I have suffered much anguish when given a 72 DPI image and having to step it up to 300 to match it with a second image. 72 DPI in these cases may prevent image theft.

I have yet to submit work for photography contests and shows that were willing to accept images less than 300 DPI. Again, this is for PRINT quality reasons.

If you're stealing a SINGLE image for a web application, DPI isn't going to stop you. But if you don't understand how DPI affects print media and composite manipulation, then you may not realize how these types of thefts may be prevented with a lower DPI.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15

Uploaded files:2057 | Total Sales: 11632
Igordabari
3818 posts
62
Message edited at 02/18/2013, 13:10:59 PM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Wisconsinart:
Quoted Message: I think my problem here is I have experience where others may not.300 DPI is REQUIRED by many PRINT shops. They will not accept 72 DPI unless you are willing to waive quality expectations.


They just do not want to waste their time to change 72 for 300 and want you to do this yourself.

That's the only explanation. Last couple of years I have to deal a lot with poligraphy. And I operate with all these damned things like pixels and dpi's almost everyday. Increasing dpi for an image I just decrease the print size in change of increasiing its resolution. Or on the contrary, less dpi means larger size but worse quality.

Not more. But not less, though.

Everybody can change DPI for any image to control print quality and size. Image stays absolutely the same.
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2568
Red
1793 posts
Message edited at 02/18/2013, 15:04:04 PM by Red
It's easy to get confused. The confusion, or difference of opinion here is based on the definition of "print." A print is not always a " print" and you also have to consider ppi and lpi if you are talking about lithography, offset printing (magazines and brochures, etc.).

DPI is getting mixed up with ppi, pixels per inch which defines the size an image will print at. The higher the ppi the better quality print you will get but only up to a point. 300 ppi (not dpi) is generally considered the highest point you should print an image at for inkjet printing. Any higher will not improve the quality and most inkjet printers ask for less when printing digital photos. But, the main consideration should be amount of pixels in any given image. DPI and PPI and LPI can be manipulated.

For offset or web printing for magazines or brochures that come off of a printing press 300 dpi is usually requested - basic graphic design for printing presses. But, for this type of printing you also have to take into consideration lpi, lines per inch of dots. For offset litho, ideally you should supply images that are twice the lpi for conventional screening, i.e. if printing at 200 lpi, supply 400 dpi images assuming your images are 100% at the size to be output. Stochastic screening requirements are different. Newspapers print at a lower lpi, art books a higher lpi. Look through a loupe at a magazine and you can pick out dots, the closer together the higher the lpi and ppi.

Pixels are the most important measurement for printing glossy inkjet photos or for web use. Images with less than 2 megapixels are only suitable for viewing online or for wallet size prints if you want quality, no matter the dpi as it is a measurement of printer resolution and defines how many dots of ink are placed on the paper when the image is printed.

a DT comp is approx 754 x 1024 pixels or .8 megapixels
at 300 dpi it is 2.5 inches by 3.5 inches (high quality printing press use)
at 72 dpi it is 10.5 x 14 inches
at digital photo print size it would be around 5 x 6.8 inches
(comps are still quite large for many uses)

For web use this is huge, for press printing use this is small. "Print" in this case, again, refers to printing in a magazine or a brochure - offset printing press, not a photo print from the local drugstore. The comp size could be printed in a magazine at 2.5 x 3.5 inches for the best clarity (or upsized a bit).


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Miraclemoments
1271 posts
72
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 15:27:55 PM by Miraclemoments
These facts would then lead me to believe that maybe DT's comp images are a bit too big then and make it "worthwhile" for someone to try and steal
Canon 60D I AM A SIGMA AMBASSADOR Sigma 8-16 f4.5-5....

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Igordabari
3818 posts
62
Message posted at 02/18/2013, 15:47:32 PM by Igordabari
Oh, God... :)))
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

Uploaded files:1889 | Total Sales: 2568
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