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Supermoon this night, be prepared!

Author Message
Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 09:57:07 AM by Alvera
"What is a Supermoon?

A Supermoon is a name given to a somewhat rare event, when the moon is new or "full", and it is physically at its closest point to our planet. As the moon rotates in its elliptical orbit around the Earth, there are two points that astronomers marked with names: "lunar perigee", which is the the point of the closest distance of the moon to our planet at 363,104 kilometers, and "lunar apogee", which is the point of the farthest distance of the moon from our planet at 405,696 kilometers. So when lunar perigee coincides with a new moon, which normally happens several times a year, the "Supermoon" can appear up to 13% larger and 30% brighter compared to a full moon at lunar apogee. Although the Supermoon can be seen several times a year, only one of those is usually the most "super", meaning it is the fullest and the closest of them all. And that date for 2013 happens to be June 23."

I did some photos last night with a 300 mm on a 1.5 crop sensor, the sky was not so clear, I will try this night again. Wish me luck.
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Igordabari
3825 posts
62
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 10:04:21 AM by Igordabari
Do not follow these stupid newspapers, Your Majesty. They always make noise from nothing. 13% difference means nothing, practically... Just a Moon :)
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Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 10:05:39 AM by Alvera
So, 13% means how many MORE pixels on my 1.5 crop sensor with a 300 mm lens attached?
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Igordabari
3825 posts
62
Message edited at 06/23/2013, 10:45:51 AM by Igordabari
Yes. And account that the Full moon is a poor subject for shooting. Direct light. No shadows. Like shooting people with built-in flash.

Moon makes this once per month, 12 times per year, being illuminated much more effectively.
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Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 11:13:55 AM by Alvera
I understand that the Moon is not a subject of interest for my Chief Astronomer :) What subject may be a big task for you? I told you that astronomy is my passion too, but I have no equipment and very poor knowledge...
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Miraclemoments
1271 posts
72
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 11:38:51 AM by Miraclemoments
Well I have just been out to photograph it and believe me....13% is a lot of difference when you see it rising. Did a few zoomed in shots and then a panorama cityscape shot with the moon rising over Mossel Bay.
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Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 12:02:56 PM by Alvera
Moonrise and moonset calculator. Find moonrise, moonset and moonphase for a location: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/moonrise.html
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Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message edited at 06/23/2013, 12:26:46 PM by Alvera

Originally posted by Miraclemoments:
Quoted Message: Well I have just been out to photograph it and believe me....13% is a lot of difference when you see it rising. Did a few zoomed in shots and then a panorama cityscape shot with the moon rising over Mossel Bay.


Very curious to see the pictures. Will you upload them here or put on a website or just for you?
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Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 12:13:36 PM by Alvera
Miraclemoments, please give me some clues how to shoot a moon rising from a water (sea). It will rise in about 20 minutes from now, so please hurry :)
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Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 12:24:35 PM by Alvera
Igor, what means Moon Rise Azimuth 94° East ? You have about 10 minutes to answer, please hurry :)
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Miraclemoments
1271 posts
72
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 12:34:42 PM by Miraclemoments
First off if depends if you are shooting directly into the moon. Then use TV function on your camera and set it to a speed between 1/80 - 1/125. That way you will get the detail. Remember the moon is just a reflector of the sun/s light so you need to adjust your shutter speed accordingly. TRIPOD!!!!

Take lots of images. Some overexposed others underexposed. If you are shooting over water try and get an exposure for the water itself and then the moon by itself and blend them on the horizon.

I will try and upload here otherwise it will be on my website with a 'how I did it' blog.

Also have a look at the Photographers Ephemeris. Awesome app for android and iphone. all the sunrise and sunset details on your smartphone
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Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 12:38:31 PM by Alvera
thanks, on the run!
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Igordabari
3825 posts
62
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 12:45:56 PM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Alvera:
Quoted Message: Igor, what means Moon Rise Azimuth 94° East ? You have about 10 minutes to answer, please hurry :)


This mean 94 degree counting from the North :) Clockwise.
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

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Igordabari
3825 posts
62
Message edited at 06/23/2013, 12:56:16 PM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Miraclemoments:
Quoted Message: Well I have just been out to photograph it and believe me....13% is a lot of difference when you see it rising. Did a few zoomed in shots and then a panorama cityscape shot with the moon rising over Mossel Bay.


13% means 13%, not more. Independently on the fact that it's rising. You can shoot cityscape with 26' Moon or 31' Moon, the difference is negligible. That's my point. What kind of panorama do you mean? Something like this?

 Image not available or id is incorrect. 

This one sells much better and has not be Supermoon to be shot:

 Moon 
I, me, myself + cameras: Canon 450d (for astrophoto...

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Igordabari
3825 posts
62
Message edited at 06/23/2013, 15:08:08 PM by Igordabari
Miraclemoments: 13% is a lot of difference when you see it rising.

Some facts.

Lunar perigee = 362,570 km
Lunar apogee = 405,410 km
Lunar semi-major axis = 384,399 km
Lunar diameter = 3475 km

This leads to the mean angular size of the Moon 31.1' with minimum and maximum values 29.3' and 32.9', correspondingly. Or 31.1' +- 6%

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon

Conclusion Nb.1

Practically, this means that so called 'Super Moon' is a Moon that is only by 6% larger than 'normal' Moon. 10 years ago there was not such a therm ('Supermoon'), so people always saw the Moon that was always more or less of the same sizes (+- 6% obviously means just nothing) and were not too excited about it. Angular sizes of the Moon have not changed since that time, but somebody invented the term 'Supermoon'. By that time people were quite prepared by consumption society to buy everything that is mentioned in ads and be exited by everything that is written in newspapers even if it goes against any practical reasons. So, people became crazy about 'Super Moon'. One can read lot of reports regarding 'A horrible huge Moon' on the Internet. But numerical consideration above clearly shows, on my opinion, that SuperMoon is just one of the consumption society legends. Though everybody is free to trust, I don't mind. If people trust in megapixels power (this religion is successfuly supported by mobile phone manufacturers), then why do not trust in Super Moon?

Some other facts.

The Moon illusion is an optical illusion in which the Moon appears larger near the horizon than it does while higher up in the sky. In fact, the real sizes of the Moon are SMALLER when it is near horizon because of atmosperic refraction. Large sizes are only an illusion.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion

Conclusion Nb.2

The same as Conclusion Nb.1 (see above). Plus - if you want to shoot the full moon you can do this every 28 days with almost exactly the same result as today.

Miraclemoments: Then use TV function on your camera and set it to a speed between 1/80 - 1/125. That way you will get the detail.

Now some more facts.

Number of details does mot depend on the shutter speed but rather on the lens resolution. Needed shutter speed strongly depends on the amount of light and, consequently, on the aperture.

Conclusion Nb.3

So, numbers 1/80 - 1/125 that was given as an optimum in terms of detalizaton are a kind of nonsense.

THE PRINCIPAL CONCLUSION

People needs some knowlege to avoid stupid behaviour. But people are too lazy to get a knowlege and prefer to be exited by newspapers. So, today we are shooting the Supermoon, are not we? ;) Everybody except for me (unfortunatlely, I know too much to get in the panic made of nothing). Good luck! :)

I am out.
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Miraclemoments
1271 posts
72
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 15:14:58 PM by Miraclemoments
Yes I agree the difference is small and almost not visible...however...using it in cityscape as the main point of interest was why I went out. The fact that the moon was just that little closer was a bonus :-)

I do believe there is a lot of hype and attention to the fact. Technology has made it possible for us to know all these things and I guess many people are excited about it. Had is been a 'normal' full moon tonight I would have done the same as planned.

What I meant by using TV mode to adjust the shutter was that allowing the camera to select the speed would overexpose your image. Maybe I phrased it incorrectly by mentioning detail instead of proper exposure. My mistake, sorry.

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Igordabari
3825 posts
62
Message edited at 06/23/2013, 15:22:20 PM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Miraclemoments:
Quoted Message: The fact that the moon was just that little closer was a bonus :-)

Had is been a `normal` full moon tonight I would have done the same as planned.


Sure. 6% bonus is not too great, but better than nothing :)

Hope your session was successfull and images will appear soon in you PF.
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Murdock2013
504 posts
79
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 15:24:42 PM by Murdock2013
I love a full moon! Just going out for a bit now or should I say a bite?


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Alvera
2736 posts
77
Message posted at 06/23/2013, 16:12:06 PM by Alvera
Back from the beach. I see a lot of scientific data above, I will read later with big interest, thanks. Short storry: the sky was not so clear but I have some shoots, tomorrow I will put some of them on my blog. Hope for a clear sky next night.

Igor, please translate in a more simple photographic language what means "a Newton telescope with D=130mm and F=1300 mm." Saw this on your amazing photo.
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Igordabari
3825 posts
62
Message edited at 06/23/2013, 16:54:02 PM by Igordabari

Originally posted by Alvera:
Quoted Message: Back from the beach. I see a lot of scientific data above, I will read later with big interest, thanks. Short storry: the sky was not so clear but I have some shoots, tomorrow I will put some of them on my blog. Hope for a clear sky next night.Igor, please translate in a more simple photographic language what means "a Newton telescope with D=130mm and F=1300 mm." Saw this on your amazing photo.


Oh, God... Madonna Santa! Mein Gott! These are questions from A Dorian King, you see.

Mamma mia...

It's just a reflector (mirror instead of lens). Such kind of scopes was inventioned by Newton. Diameter of my mirror is 130mm. Focal length of my mirror is 650 mm. Since I had to use the Barlow lens x2 before an eyepiece the effective focal distance increased up to 1300mm

References
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtonian_telescope
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlow_lens


By the way, the full Moon looks better when the sky is not clear. Just a full moon itself is ugly, as I told you (no lights, no shadows). Some amount of illuminated clouds around or using the Moon as a background for cityscape can help.

Oh, Mon Dieu... Matka Boska...
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