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FYI, to the Dreamstimes admins

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Jpsdk
For Your Information.

I have been uploading images to microstock agencies since 2007.

When I have a bulk of images ready, post processed and keyworded in IPTC I begin to upload them to the agencies.
Typically Dreamstime is the last agency I upload to, if I upload at all, for a couple of reasons, some of which you could easily do something about:

1.. Dreamstime is a relative low earner.
2.. My firefox browser freezes, and I cannot watch movies while I upload, or do other things, unless I open a new window, which I often forget.
3.. Dreamstimes update. Transfer of files to one bucket to another online might take so long that I click away, and forget about the files for a month.
4.. My files are titled and keyworded in IPTC, so it is annoying to have to change titles and descriptions on every single file, to meet some unique Dreamstimes standards. I often delete or do not upload a file that is a bit different, because I dont bother to scroll and choose company unique and mysterious categories.

I realize there is enough content floading the internet and that the agencies can easily get enough, so I just want to inform Dreamstime, that the opposite is also true, there are agencies enough, and those who make me waste my time for too little return do not get my files.
Its very simple, we count pennies.
OK, roger and over.
Nikon d 200, various lenses, strobes and speedlights
Edited: 09/25/2013, 21:26:45 PM
Achilles
Admin
1. Your mileage may vary, some contributors earn more here some don't. When you compare agencies make sure you note the difference between royalties awarded so you know the margin each has to advertise. Nevertheless, Dreamstime has the second largest user database in the world. You should also notice that the number of submissions we get has almost doubled and the trend will continue. You need to upload twice as much just to maintain your portfolio exposure. Even if the submission limits have been raised, Approval Ratio matters on search ranking. If you are below 80% you should do better, there are many others in front of you.

2. There are no other recent reports so you might have a local conflict. Use FTP. Browsers were created to browse, not to upload. FTP works like a charm, especially if you have many files. Enjoy the movie without having to worry about your browser.

3. Files are transferred almost instantly into your Unfinished Files folder. The delays you mentioned were solved many months ago.

4. Dreamstime captures both IPTC and EXIF and this results from your post too. Why do you have to change titles and descriptions? Or if you know you have to do it, why aren't they populated like this right from the start.

Edited: 09/26/2013, 01:34:34 AM by Admin
Jpsdk
Im just informing you, it is up to you if you will make use of the information.

I am not going to change my workflow, and as it is, Dreamstime will get the images last -if at all.
Nikon d 200, various lenses, strobes and speedlights
Posted: 09/26/2013, 01:48:20 AM
Digitalexpressionimages

Originally posted by Achilles:
Quoted Message: You should also notice that the number of submissions we get has almost doubled and the trend will continue. You need to upload twice as much just to maintain your portfolio exposure..


Serban that's not fair or sustainable. My acceptance ratio is over 80%. In fact in 2013 my ratio is around 97% so I'm not uploading junk but I am maxed out for uploads. I do as much and at as high a quality as I can but I run a full time business as a web developer, graphic designer AND photographer and I have no wife or children to help me maintain my life, House, chores, etc. I simply cannot double my output to maintain my current exposure.

If professionals that have been in imaging and graphics for over 20 years can't maintain a sustainable level of revenue without working twice as hard for it, it begs the question: why bother?
Macro USM, Sigma OS 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM, Sigma 2X Tele-converter...
Posted: 09/26/2013, 07:28:48 AM
Godfer

Originally posted by Digitalexpressionimages:
Quoted Message: Serban that`s not fair or sustainable.

There is nothing that Serban can do about that. It's not a punishment for not uploading it's just statistics based on how many image the you have in relationship to the whole data base. So to keep the same portfolio exposure if the data base doubles then you need to double your portfolio.
Canon 5D MK II
Posted: 09/26/2013, 09:06:10 AM
Wisconsinart
People are going to be offended by me saying this but there is no benefit for stock agencies to make things fair for Contributors who can't keep up with the competition.
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15
Posted: 09/26/2013, 10:25:53 AM
Twindesign

Originally posted by Wisconsinart:
Quoted Message: People are going to be offended by me saying this but there is no benefit for stock agencies to make things fair for Contributors who can`t keep up with the competition.


+1
Nikon D7000 and 7100.
Posted: 09/26/2013, 11:24:14 AM
Jpsdk
No, we are not offended, we know how the business is.

The point is, however, that noone kan keep up with the competition. There is a limit to how much you can work double as hard and double the quality of your images.
That limit is there for everyone, also the best and most hard working people. Its the nature of a crowdsourced environment.

It is an illusion that you can make it, if just work harder.
Its clearly stated in the quote : "You need to upload twice as much just to maintain your portfolio exposure.."
Its the classic "divide and rule trick". Eg. make them believe that they can cope with competition, if they just work harder.
Its a win/ loose situation, and the contributors are the loosers. Its called exploitation.

It was not always the case, there are examples of agencies who protect and nurish their contributors.

Nikon d 200, various lenses, strobes and speedlights
Posted: 09/26/2013, 11:31:53 AM
Digitalexpressionimages

Originally posted by Godfer:
Quoted Message: There is nothing that Serban can do about that. It`s not a punishment for not uploading it`s just statistics based on how many image the you have in relationship to the whole data base. So to keep the same portfolio exposure if the data base doubles then you need to double your portfolio.


Of course he can. If database exposure effects things like search result ranking and he owns the bloody agency then to suggest he has no control over his own company and how the search algorithm works is either naive or obtuse.

What the remark means is this: work twice as hard for the same amount of money. Work twice as hard to tread water and never get ahead. What pro, spending money on props, models, makeup, hair, insurance etc. is going to continue to contribute to an industry in which the harder they work the more they get nothing back. Forget the bit about fair, if you believe the owner has no say in his own business then you go right ahead, focus instead on sustainability. When the professionals all decide they can't work any harder and won't be satisfied with seeing revenues fall because of reduced exposure due to them not working twice as hard, they will leave.

AS for wisconsinart, I never read anything that guy says so no need to respond. No offense.

Macro USM, Sigma OS 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM, Sigma 2X Tele-converter...
Posted: 09/26/2013, 16:29:22 PM
Godfer

Originally posted by Digitalexpressionimages:
Quoted Message: Of course he can. If database exposure effects things like search result ranking and he owns the bloody agency then to suggest he has no control over his own company and how the search algorithm works is either naive or obtuse.What the remark means is this: work twice as hard for the same amount of money. Work twice as hard to tread water and never get ahead. What pro, spending money on props, models, makeup, hair, insurance etc. is going to continue to contribute to an industry in which the harder they work the more they get nothing back. Forget the bit about fair, if you believe the owner has no say in his own business then you go right ahead, focus instead on sustainability. When the professionals all decide they can`t work any harder and won`t be satisfied with seeing revenues fall because of reduced exposure due to them not working twice as hard, they will leave.AS for wisconsinart, I never read anything that guy says so no need to respond. No offense.

So what do you think is the answer then? More and more images are getting added every day. Who do you think should should get the best exposure? It makes sense that one of the factors for search ranking is how many images you get accepted.
Canon 5D MK II
Posted: 09/26/2013, 16:54:46 PM
Ildipapp

Originally posted by Godfer:
Quoted Message: There is nothing that Serban can do about that. It`s not a punishment for not uploading it`s just statistics based on how many image the you have in relationship to the whole data base. So to keep the same portfolio exposure if the data base doubles then you need to double your portfolio.


That's not completely right. I think many of us are aware that some of their competitors struggle to keep their market share in download numbers, so their had been a pretty high chance to grow their business as much as the database has grown and also while there had been (and maybe even still is) an economical crisis in the industrial nations there is also economical growth in many development countries, which suggests that the market is rather shifting than shrinking (microstock prices are very well affordable for them and in many of them smaller businesses are way more more common than in the industrial nations, so potential demand in quantity should be very much higher). Noticing and reacting to situations like that is the microstock-agencies responsibility not the contributors.

Also if you read Achilles post carefully, you could notice that he mentions the following:

[quote]Nevertheless, Dreamstime has the second largest user database in the world.[/quote]

Isn't it Dreamstime, who argues that free images draw more attention to the Website? So while Dreamstime attracted attention to it's website, they were unable to turn registered users into customers (which is about the quality of the website/service Dreamstime offers within its group of competitors for offering RF-Image licenses), which is their part of the stock business and therefore you could argue again that they don't do their job very well.

It's not only a competitive market on the contributor's side but also on the agencies side and within a market based economy they also have to do their job. It's not the contributors responsibility to keep the agencies profitable (for example via commission cuts (or level adjustments), accepting ever lower prices, free image distribution or social media marketing). In fact their position in the market and the marketing should be financed from their side and they should be able to grow their market share (lately that should have been very easy) without putting the responsibility onto the contributors, because otherwise in their competitive market there's no place for them.

[quote]People are going to be offended by me saying this but there is no benefit for stock agencies to make things fair for Contributors who can`t keep up with the competition. [/quote]

It's not the agencies responsibility to put certain contributors higher up the search based on having a fair income or similar.
But the same argumentation is also very well true about ownership/management of companies (which nowadays is valid for many other fields of the economy too) as it not the contributors/workers responsibility to guarantee the companies market share (via lower and lower prices or increased productivity) and profitability (via getting payed less for subscriptions/accepting lower commissions or accepting lower wages).

You can't just argue that contributors have to stay competitive, but the companies don't have to. If they are allowed to point out that the contributors have to stay competitive within their group of market competition (via quality and quantity) so can the contributors (see argumentation above).
Edited: 09/26/2013, 19:10:51 PM
Wisconsinart

Originally posted by Digitalexpressionimages:
Quoted Message: AS for wisconsinart, I never read anything that guy says so no need to respond. No offense.


Can't be offended by someone with stats like yours.

Of course, you didn't read that. :-)
Nikon D800, D100, Canon G15
Edited: 09/26/2013, 20:39:26 PM
Lenutaidi
Hey guys! Don't worry! Be happy!:) @ Digitalexpressionimages : Just keep uploading! You have to work if you want to have:) In 2004 there were approximately 750 photographers on DT. Now they are 164,311 photographers on DT. And DON'T FORGET: "Happy people are those who have passion as a job. The moment you have no satisfaction, it's time to look for a change" - quotes from Serban Enache.(Achilles). Best regards,Lenuta!
Edited: 09/27/2013, 04:07:04 AM
Heywoody
There is ftp and it handles iptc so not that bad - bulk edit / get rid of categories would help. Can't really blame DT for falling sales relative to port size given the overabundant supply vs demand for images. I don't think supplying stock is a particularly viable way to make a living (agencies aside) given the effort and investment needed for very modest returns but a bonus for something many of us would be doing anyway.
I’m not aware of any agencies that “protect and nurish their contributors” and only 2 (DT being one of them) that show some consideration for the interests of contributors.
Vue 7, Daz 3, Wings 3D and the odd photo.
Posted: 09/27/2013, 03:03:33 AM
Twindesign

Originally posted by Digitalexpressionimages:
Quoted Message: and I have no wife or children to help me maintain my life, House, chores, etc.


I have a wife and 2 kids. Believe me... this does NOT give you more time it gives you LESS time to shoot. If I did not have a wife that also wants to spend family time and 2 kids that need attention I would have much more images online already. :) So you are lucky in some way. ;)
Nikon D7000 and 7100.
Edited: 09/27/2013, 03:12:58 AM
Ildipapp

Originally posted by Heywoody:
Quoted Message: I’m not aware of any agencies that “protect and nurish their contributors” and only 2 (DT being one of them) that show some consideration for the interests of contributors.


Which is why I'm still uploading here. I think they are considerable fair in comparison and RPD isn't all that bad, but i can't say their sometime ago announced changes led to higher or at least stable earnings, while on some agencies downloads and earnings are stable or even increasing (and without uploading at all for a few month and not much afterwards). So i think the overall statement is way too broad and one-sided.
Edited: 09/27/2013, 10:30:26 AM
Lostarts
Close DT to new photographers and dismiss photographers who do not sustain regualr uploads. I feel that those who work and contribute should eventually see progress in sales if competition within DT is reduced.
Canon bodies and lenses.
Posted: 09/27/2013, 14:37:10 PM
Jpsdk
The “protect and nurish their contributors” was more in the old days, 10 years ago, where agencies kept their contributors base steady. They only let new contributors in, if demand increased or if someone died.
In that way both the agency and the contributors could make a living. Bad for the customers. Not sustainable.

Nowadays the agencies do the opposite, they crowdsource everybody on the planet who has a camera in hand, and that is the road to certain death for the contributors.

Good for the customers, good for the agency, bad for the contributors.
But not sustainable either.

It should be possible to come up with a business model, that is sustainable for all parties.
But who cares about sustainability, the agencies certainly dont, but I find it very arrogant and one sided when they just tell us to work double as hard.

My point with the original post was the opposite, to tell them, that I work half as hard, to keep up with the competition, and that they could change the point of worthless return, with smoothening up the system so contributors did not waste time.

in short: Make it easier to work double as hard, then you keep us longer.
Nikon d 200, various lenses, strobes and speedlights
Posted: 09/27/2013, 23:13:14 PM
Jpsdk
Why dont you agencies crowdsource yourself, and agree on a common base of pictures from where you sell licences.
you could have one upload stream, and one review proces, and one server tower in Lapland.

its already happening with all the affiliate programs, why dont you all join the same, and concentrate on licences and links to the base.

The only thing the customers are interested in is a valid licence, the pictures are available all over the place.
Nikon d 200, various lenses, strobes and speedlights
Posted: 09/27/2013, 23:21:13 PM
Jpsdk
You will answer, we cannot do that because we are different agencies, we compete and we must have our own content.
Well do you? You dont have any content, you are licensing content from the owners.

And the agencies said that in the old days also, and the microstock concept with agencies selling out of categories from their servers is already becoming antiquated and the time they have left might be short.
Nikon d 200, various lenses, strobes and speedlights
Edited: 09/27/2013, 23:34:12 PM
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